Removing the cam

67 GTX · 07-31-2008, 08:12 PM

On a 1967 Plymouth GTX 440, can the cam be removed through the front grill, or does the engine have to come out?

Doc · 08-01-2008, 12:41 AM

You JUST have to pull the radiator.

67 GTX · 08-01-2008, 09:17 AM

thanks Doc, have you ever experienced a problem with STP Oil Treatment causing hydraulic Valve lifters to stick?

I remember back in the 60's there was a problem. This could be why my engine is acting this way. The lifter I took apart last night was stuck.

Doc · 08-01-2008, 10:20 PM

X-Guy ... as was mentioned in that other post ....do you have an AC condenser?

STP doing that ? ... it could. Although I have never experienced that. Have you tried any of the high detergent additives ? Do you have more that one stuck lifter? ... maybe rings too?

67 GTX · 08-02-2008, 01:28 PM

I just have one stuck lifter. My car doesn't have AC.

Doc · 08-03-2008, 01:31 AM

I would try a load of lite oil and a can of that detergent additive. It helped my situation some time ago.

rr69half6bbl · 09-02-2008, 10:49 PM

Dont forget when you install the new cam to use an addative w/ a zinc base in it. they are finding that since roller cams dont need the zinc to help with friction wear, that the new oil is wiping out new cams i had it happen to me. i put a .509 in a 440 and the cam failed. So from now on I go to the local chevy dealer and get a bottle of E.O.S. :engine oil suppliment. rub the new cam down in the asmb. lube they provide, then put a bottle of the eos in with the engine oil, run the motor on your break in then leave the supp. in until you change the break in oil. then run one more bottle in it till your first normal oil change, Its recomended for just the break in, but Im planning on running it at every oio change,Just dont trust the epa and the green earthers to not mess with the oil anymore then they already have,i know they would love for all our mopes to break down and not run again.

Doc · 09-02-2008, 11:04 PM

Hey Doug ...how was work ? ... BTW - is there any famous-brand oil out there that still has those proper additives? I found some Tractor Supply oil that is rated SL ... which is supposed to be with those proper additives ....correct ?

rr69half6bbl · 09-03-2008, 04:48 AM

hey doc, it went quick tonight. i dont know who is still doing the zinc addative, I think royal purple, and some racer guy has his own oil out. But i just use the eos. and get my oil at napa. anybody still making the old stuff w/ zinc knows you need it and the oil is twice the price per quart.I dont care for guys like that. they can keep theryre crap,ill spend an extra few bucks and just use the supp. I get my valvoline based oil at napa, and when i run out i get more, i dont need to worry about getting on line to order it from joe screw me inco.

Commando · 09-03-2008, 04:56 AM

I know Royal Purple does, I was looking at a bottle the other day and it said sl and a whole bunch of other stuff.

67 GTX · 09-03-2008, 01:10 PM

there is brad penn oil
rotella
vrl racing oil
there is a few that have the zinc
i had to pull the engine, but i am using the additive now

Doc · 09-03-2008, 02:56 PM

rr and C ... RP ? ... that oil is more over-priced than Amsoil !

67 GTX · 09-03-2008, 06:21 PM

i know, its amazing, that is why I'm just going to Rotella

Commando · 09-03-2008, 06:52 PM

My friend owns an auto parts store, he sells to me near cost, its not too bad.

Doc · 09-03-2008, 07:22 PM

THIS oil topic needs a SEPARATE section here ! ... I hear that this new-oil thingy is really serious.... unless you have a roller cam. Must be nice !

67 GTX · 09-03-2008, 07:46 PM

I dont have a roller cam
their expensive
$800-$1000 for cam and lifters if you wanted to make it a roller

Doc · 09-03-2008, 10:54 PM

Xer ...you see that motorhome in my profile? .. that will probably SEE one of those type cams. The reason? .. is I am building a MPG motor for it(not that I will ever get HUGE mpg with it but LOTS better than a "regular" one) ...and I am very much leaning in that direction. Why ? .. the "mpg" cams of 2008 require a radical quick-ramp short-duration profile and the only thing that will "live" is a roller. I have heard that there are lots cam failures that then can screw-up a motor ... big-time.

67 GTX · 09-04-2008, 04:52 PM

cool motorhome doc, good luck with it!

Doc · 09-05-2008, 02:59 AM

THX Xer .... I plan on using that to haul a racer around the eastern part of the country to high-$ foot-brake bracket races. MPG is a major concern.

BuckNeccid · 09-05-2008, 06:51 AM

This issue of Hagerty's insured magazine covers this topic. Using thier research, ZDDP is the additive that's being left out of most oils. Also, thier article shows the follwing oils still have a sufficient amount of ZDDP to protect our engines. Going from Most to Least, they listed the following oils: Classic car motor oil, manufactured by D-A lubricant co, approx 1500-1600 ppm (dalube.com), Valvoline VR1 Racing oil & Red Line oil, both having approximately 1300 ppm; Castrol Syntec 20W50, 1200 ppm (but remember synthetic isn't too advised for breakins) Brad Penn oil with 1500ppm, mineral oil of course. Shell offers the oil for both gas & Diesel, with approx 1000 ppm, and you can get just the ZDDP additive from ZDDPlus (zddplus.com). They don't give a minimum acceptible level, but current levels are set at 800 ppm or less, and they imply that this is a case where more is better.

Commando · 09-05-2008, 09:26 AM

Not to take the topic in another direction, but what do you guys recommend for a good Break in oil for the cam? I have Pennzoil sitting in the engine now to protect it while it sits, but don't think I will use it to break it in.

67 GTX · 09-05-2008, 03:15 PM

you need a oil with zinc in it, in using rotella, and you NEED break in oil, its an additive

67 GTX · 09-30-2008, 09:51 PM

how did your break in go?

Commando · 10-01-2008, 10:21 AM

I think you are asking me, didn't read all the way back. I have stalled that project for a bit, breaking the engine down again, I got a good steel crank on eBay I am going to put in the engine, and go over anything I may have missed.

67 GTX · 10-01-2008, 11:03 AM

cool
what car is this for?

Commando · 10-01-2008, 11:31 AM

I will be putting the 440 into My 77 Cordoba.

67 GTX · 10-01-2008, 12:33 PM

oh ya, I remember those pics.
That'll be cool
When do you think you'll be finished by?

Commando · 10-01-2008, 04:46 PM

Hopefully by the end of the year, if the engine and I were in the same place at the same time I could knock out the breakdown in not too long of a time, but we're not. I hope to get a chance to work on it on Sunday, but I also have to raise some more funds for the heads, I am about 3/4 of the way there, sold my manifolds at a swap meet so that helped but no one was interested in my intake. I really should have taken more stuff, that I have lying around.

The other conflict is that where I have the engine is in the back of my friends shop, and I am going to put his warehouse on eBay so if I am there I have to give him adequate time to do that. So I will definitely be sharing some of the info about what I list with you guys as there are some pretty rare things lying around, but that's why I have such a long time frame.

67 GTX · 10-01-2008, 05:03 PM

ya, there is never enough time is there?

Commando · 10-01-2008, 07:52 PM

Definitely not, and it doesn't help that I am currently during the week 90 miles from the store, and only have 3 days to get anything done. That doesn't seem so bad but I have time during the week to do stuff but I just can't get there. But I do have all week to plan out what I need to do, so I hope that reduces my chances of making mistakes.

07-31-2008, 08:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	Removing the cam On a 1967 Plymouth GTX 440, can the cam be removed through the front grill, or does the engine have to come out?

09-05-2008, 06:51 AM	#20 (permalink)
BuckNeccid Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: South Point OH Posts: 63	Good oil This issue of Hagerty's insured magazine covers this topic. Using thier research, ZDDP is the additive that's being left out of most oils. Also, thier article shows the follwing oils still have a sufficient amount of ZDDP to protect our engines. Going from Most to Least, they listed the following oils: Classic car motor oil, manufactured by D-A lubricant co, approx 1500-1600 ppm (dalube.com), Valvoline VR1 Racing oil & Red Line oil, both having approximately 1300 ppm; Castrol Syntec 20W50, 1200 ppm (but remember synthetic isn't too advised for breakins) Brad Penn oil with 1500ppm, mineral oil of course. Shell offers the oil for both gas & Diesel, with approx 1000 ppm, and you can get just the ZDDP additive from ZDDPlus (zddplus.com). They don't give a minimum acceptible level, but current levels are set at 800 ppm or less, and they imply that this is a case where more is better.

08-01-2008, 12:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	You JUST have to pull the radiator.

08-01-2008, 09:17 AM	#3 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	thanks Doc, have you ever experienced a problem with STP Oil Treatment causing hydraulic Valve lifters to stick? I remember back in the 60's there was a problem. This could be why my engine is acting this way. The lifter I took apart last night was stuck.

08-01-2008, 10:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	X-Guy ... as was mentioned in that other post ....do you have an AC condenser? STP doing that ? ... it could. Although I have never experienced that. Have you tried any of the high detergent additives ? Do you have more that one stuck lifter? ... maybe rings too?

08-02-2008, 01:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	I just have one stuck lifter. My car doesn't have AC.

08-03-2008, 01:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	I would try a load of lite oil and a can of that detergent additive. It helped my situation some time ago.

09-02-2008, 10:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
rr69half6bbl Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central ,IN Posts: 99	Dont forget when you install the new cam to use an addative w/ a zinc base in it. they are finding that since roller cams dont need the zinc to help with friction wear, that the new oil is wiping out new cams i had it happen to me. i put a .509 in a 440 and the cam failed. So from now on I go to the local chevy dealer and get a bottle of E.O.S. :engine oil suppliment. rub the new cam down in the asmb. lube they provide, then put a bottle of the eos in with the engine oil, run the motor on your break in then leave the supp. in until you change the break in oil. then run one more bottle in it till your first normal oil change, Its recomended for just the break in, but Im planning on running it at every oio change,Just dont trust the epa and the green earthers to not mess with the oil anymore then they already have,i know they would love for all our mopes to break down and not run again.

09-02-2008, 11:04 PM	#8 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Hey Doug ...how was work ? ... BTW - is there any famous-brand oil out there that still has those proper additives? I found some Tractor Supply oil that is rated SL ... which is supposed to be with those proper additives ....correct ?

09-03-2008, 04:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
rr69half6bbl Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: central ,IN Posts: 99	hey doc, it went quick tonight. i dont know who is still doing the zinc addative, I think royal purple, and some racer guy has his own oil out. But i just use the eos. and get my oil at napa. anybody still making the old stuff w/ zinc knows you need it and the oil is twice the price per quart.I dont care for guys like that. they can keep theryre crap,ill spend an extra few bucks and just use the supp. I get my valvoline based oil at napa, and when i run out i get more, i dont need to worry about getting on line to order it from joe screw me inco.

09-03-2008, 04:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	I know Royal Purple does, I was looking at a bottle the other day and it said sl and a whole bunch of other stuff.

09-03-2008, 01:10 PM	#11 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	there is brad penn oil rotella vrl racing oil there is a few that have the zinc i had to pull the engine, but i am using the additive now

09-03-2008, 02:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	rr and C ... RP ? ... that oil is more over-priced than Amsoil !

09-03-2008, 06:21 PM	#13 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	i know, its amazing, that is why I'm just going to Rotella

09-03-2008, 06:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	My friend owns an auto parts store, he sells to me near cost, its not too bad.

09-03-2008, 07:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	THIS oil topic needs a SEPARATE section here ! ... I hear that this new-oil thingy is really serious.... unless you have a roller cam. Must be nice !

09-03-2008, 07:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	I dont have a roller cam their expensive $800-$1000 for cam and lifters if you wanted to make it a roller

09-03-2008, 10:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Xer ...you see that motorhome in my profile? .. that will probably SEE one of those type cams. The reason? .. is I am building a MPG motor for it(not that I will ever get HUGE mpg with it but LOTS better than a "regular" one) ...and I am very much leaning in that direction. Why ? .. the "mpg" cams of 2008 require a radical quick-ramp short-duration profile and the only thing that will "live" is a roller. I have heard that there are lots cam failures that then can screw-up a motor ... big-time.

09-04-2008, 04:52 PM	#18 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	cool motorhome doc, good luck with it!

09-05-2008, 02:59 AM	#19 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	THX Xer .... I plan on using that to haul a racer around the eastern part of the country to high-$ foot-brake bracket races. MPG is a major concern.

09-05-2008, 09:26 AM	#21 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	Not to take the topic in another direction, but what do you guys recommend for a good Break in oil for the cam? I have Pennzoil sitting in the engine now to protect it while it sits, but don't think I will use it to break it in.

09-05-2008, 03:15 PM	#22 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	you need a oil with zinc in it, in using rotella, and you NEED break in oil, its an additive

09-30-2008, 09:51 PM	#23 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	how did your break in go?

10-01-2008, 10:21 AM	#24 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	I think you are asking me, didn't read all the way back. I have stalled that project for a bit, breaking the engine down again, I got a good steel crank on eBay I am going to put in the engine, and go over anything I may have missed.

10-01-2008, 11:03 AM	#25 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	cool what car is this for?

10-01-2008, 11:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	I will be putting the 440 into My 77 Cordoba.

10-01-2008, 12:33 PM	#27 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	oh ya, I remember those pics. That'll be cool When do you think you'll be finished by?

10-01-2008, 04:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	Hopefully by the end of the year, if the engine and I were in the same place at the same time I could knock out the breakdown in not too long of a time, but we're not. I hope to get a chance to work on it on Sunday, but I also have to raise some more funds for the heads, I am about 3/4 of the way there, sold my manifolds at a swap meet so that helped but no one was interested in my intake. I really should have taken more stuff, that I have lying around. The other conflict is that where I have the engine is in the back of my friends shop, and I am going to put his warehouse on eBay so if I am there I have to give him adequate time to do that. So I will definitely be sharing some of the info about what I list with you guys as there are some pretty rare things lying around, but that's why I have such a long time frame.

10-01-2008, 05:03 PM	#29 (permalink)
67 GTX Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 328	ya, there is never enough time is there?

10-01-2008, 07:52 PM	#30 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 406	Definitely not, and it doesn't help that I am currently during the week 90 miles from the store, and only have 3 days to get anything done. That doesn't seem so bad but I have time during the week to do stuff but I just can't get there. But I do have all week to plan out what I need to do, so I hope that reduces my chances of making mistakes.