starting problem
01-08-2008, 04:51 PM
#2
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Did you check the fuses, if you have an amp meter check the wires connected to the battery and see if there is any draw as you could have a short. Other than that I would check the wiring to make sure nothing is loose or cut.
01-08-2008, 06:02 PM
#3
You haven't given us much to go on
Was it working, and just quit?
What led you up to installing a new battery, or has the car been stored?
What do you have for test gear, a meter, a test light, etc
There is a fusable link, I'm not sure where it is on your car. Usually, they have a "tag" and are usually somewhere near the firewall mounted starter relay.
The big terminal at the alternator should be "hot" all the time. Was there any sparking or other suspicious goings-on?
The big terminal at the starter should be hot
At least one of the terminals at the firewall relay should be hot.
This is probably not "a fuse" because not just one of the fuses (unless it's the fusable link) will "kill" everything.
Also, make darn sure the battery terminals are CLEAN. I don't mean "just look clean" actually get a terminal brush and CLEAN them.
Long ago, in a previous life--before '73's were born, I put a new battery into my '57 Chivvy. The terminals "looked' clean. NOTHING nada zip. double aughts. Turned out to be oxidation on one of the new battery posts.
Was it working, and just quit?
What led you up to installing a new battery, or has the car been stored?
What do you have for test gear, a meter, a test light, etc
There is a fusable link, I'm not sure where it is on your car. Usually, they have a "tag" and are usually somewhere near the firewall mounted starter relay.
The big terminal at the alternator should be "hot" all the time. Was there any sparking or other suspicious goings-on?
The big terminal at the starter should be hot
At least one of the terminals at the firewall relay should be hot.
This is probably not "a fuse" because not just one of the fuses (unless it's the fusable link) will "kill" everything.
Also, make darn sure the battery terminals are CLEAN. I don't mean "just look clean" actually get a terminal brush and CLEAN them.
Long ago, in a previous life--before '73's were born, I put a new battery into my '57 Chivvy. The terminals "looked' clean. NOTHING nada zip. double aughts. Turned out to be oxidation on one of the new battery posts.
01-08-2008, 07:14 PM
#4
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when i got the car it needed a new battery. i got a new battery in like june.
The car was running and driving fine. Then the car wouldnt start. we got the battery checked the guy said it was fine and charged it. Next day, it was dead again. Got the alternator checked and they said it was dead. Got a new one, put it in. Still nothing.
I dont really have anything to test it with. But the battery is good and the alternator is good.
Im definatly going to clean the terminals.
The car was running and driving fine. Then the car wouldnt start. we got the battery checked the guy said it was fine and charged it. Next day, it was dead again. Got the alternator checked and they said it was dead. Got a new one, put it in. Still nothing.
I dont really have anything to test it with. But the battery is good and the alternator is good.
Im definatly going to clean the terminals.
01-08-2008, 10:29 PM
#5
FIRST thing you need to try is clean the terminals.
If that doesn't work, you need to invest in a multimeter--something that is very cheap in this day and age. Just about any parts store, Sears, or Radio sh## sells them. You also should buy a so called 12V test lamp, sold at any good parts store.
Clean the terminals, and if that doesn't work, get the meter and lamp. I can help step you through some of the troubleshooting.
(thought: since this car is getting old, one thing else you might want to try, is pull apart the "firewall connector" and AT LEAST wiggle it "in and out" several times to "wipe" the blades)
These old cars are pretty simple. I still have my '70 shop manual, which is still similar. Only real difference between my old manual and your '73 is that yours came with electronic igniton, mine was breaker points.
Learning the basics of electrics troubleshooting is something that will do you good the rest of your life
If that doesn't work, you need to invest in a multimeter--something that is very cheap in this day and age. Just about any parts store, Sears, or Radio sh## sells them. You also should buy a so called 12V test lamp, sold at any good parts store.
Clean the terminals, and if that doesn't work, get the meter and lamp. I can help step you through some of the troubleshooting.
(thought: since this car is getting old, one thing else you might want to try, is pull apart the "firewall connector" and AT LEAST wiggle it "in and out" several times to "wipe" the blades)
These old cars are pretty simple. I still have my '70 shop manual, which is still similar. Only real difference between my old manual and your '73 is that yours came with electronic igniton, mine was breaker points.
Learning the basics of electrics troubleshooting is something that will do you good the rest of your life
01-12-2008, 06:39 AM
#8
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Do you see where all the wires get plugged into, I had a problem there, all the glue and stuff on the inside was melting and leaking out, not sure if thats your problem, but thats something I ran into.
01-12-2008, 09:53 AM
#9
I want you to get a piece of paper and pencil, and write the following 51 times.
"I WILL NOT THROW PARTS AND MONEY AT A PROBLEM."
You can take the alternator out of the car and throw it on the ground and leave it there--
the car will still start and run.
You can take the regulator (that you just bought) out of the car and throw it on the ground---
the car will still start and run
You can take the "ceramic block thing" (which is called the ignition resistor, coil resistor, ballast resistor) out of the car--
and the STARTER WILL STILL CRANK THE ENGINE.
So what have you learned?
That
THROWING PARTS at the problem does not work.
Earlier you said "lights won't come on, nothing."
What this indicates to me is that you are not getting ANY power to almost everything in the car.
THIS INDICATES a main connection bad somewhere. A MAIN SUPPLY CONDUCTOR that supplies battery power to the rest of the car.
Did you get a meter? Did you get a test light?
READ MY EARLIER POST AGAIN
Take your test light or meter and ground one lead securely to the block.
1 Stab the probe DIRECTLY into the post of the battery--you should have battery voltage
2 Stab the probe on the positive battery CABLE CONNECTOR. Again, you should have power
3 Go up to the starter relay
http://showcase.netins.net/web/1970g...ypn2444442.JPG
Stab the meter lead on the big screw terminal on the end. You should have power.
If you do---now take a screwdriver and short the big screw terminal to the terminal in the middle. THE STARTER SHOULD CRANK
IF this is good up to this point, It proves the battery is good, the "big" main cables are good, and the starter will work.
NOW--
4 Stab the meter or test lamp onto the big screw/nut terminal on the alternator. This should have battery.
IF NOT---this is a big clue!!!
Once again --I said this earlier--- look up in the area of the starter relay and follow the harness towards the battery. There should be one or two fuseable links. These usually are a short section of wire hanging out with a rubberized "tag" on them. Probe them to see if they have power, feel and wiggle them to see if they're melted through or corroded through.
Next, probe around the firewalll/ bulkhead connector. I DO NOT KNOW if my diagram is anywhere near the same as yours. My old '70 manual shows the following:
Here's a pic of the engine bay wireing: (You MUST get a wiring diagram, and better yet, a shop manual)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2035/...df5b72e6_o.jpg
See the battery and starter relay down at the bottom? See the fusable link going up to "J" on the connector? THIS IS the firewall connector, that feeds power into the body of the car, and goes DIRECTLY to the ammeter in the dash
On the same connector, see "P" going to the alternator? This goes to the big, main, screw / nut connector on the back of the alternator. THIS COMES DIRECTLY BACK FROM the ammeter in the dash.
All of these points should be "hot" anytime. The key does not need to be on.
I do NOT KNOW if the wiring in your car will be quite the same. The firewall connector may be wired different. This is why you need to find a diagram for your car
"I WILL NOT THROW PARTS AND MONEY AT A PROBLEM."
You can take the alternator out of the car and throw it on the ground and leave it there--
the car will still start and run.
You can take the regulator (that you just bought) out of the car and throw it on the ground---
the car will still start and run
You can take the "ceramic block thing" (which is called the ignition resistor, coil resistor, ballast resistor) out of the car--
and the STARTER WILL STILL CRANK THE ENGINE.
So what have you learned?
That
THROWING PARTS at the problem does not work.
Earlier you said "lights won't come on, nothing."
What this indicates to me is that you are not getting ANY power to almost everything in the car.
THIS INDICATES a main connection bad somewhere. A MAIN SUPPLY CONDUCTOR that supplies battery power to the rest of the car.
Did you get a meter? Did you get a test light?
READ MY EARLIER POST AGAIN
Take your test light or meter and ground one lead securely to the block.
1 Stab the probe DIRECTLY into the post of the battery--you should have battery voltage
2 Stab the probe on the positive battery CABLE CONNECTOR. Again, you should have power
3 Go up to the starter relay
http://showcase.netins.net/web/1970g...ypn2444442.JPG
Stab the meter lead on the big screw terminal on the end. You should have power.
If you do---now take a screwdriver and short the big screw terminal to the terminal in the middle. THE STARTER SHOULD CRANK
IF this is good up to this point, It proves the battery is good, the "big" main cables are good, and the starter will work.
NOW--
4 Stab the meter or test lamp onto the big screw/nut terminal on the alternator. This should have battery.
IF NOT---this is a big clue!!!
Once again --I said this earlier--- look up in the area of the starter relay and follow the harness towards the battery. There should be one or two fuseable links. These usually are a short section of wire hanging out with a rubberized "tag" on them. Probe them to see if they have power, feel and wiggle them to see if they're melted through or corroded through.
Next, probe around the firewalll/ bulkhead connector. I DO NOT KNOW if my diagram is anywhere near the same as yours. My old '70 manual shows the following:
Here's a pic of the engine bay wireing: (You MUST get a wiring diagram, and better yet, a shop manual)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2035/...df5b72e6_o.jpg
See the battery and starter relay down at the bottom? See the fusable link going up to "J" on the connector? THIS IS the firewall connector, that feeds power into the body of the car, and goes DIRECTLY to the ammeter in the dash
On the same connector, see "P" going to the alternator? This goes to the big, main, screw / nut connector on the back of the alternator. THIS COMES DIRECTLY BACK FROM the ammeter in the dash.
All of these points should be "hot" anytime. The key does not need to be on.
I do NOT KNOW if the wiring in your car will be quite the same. The firewall connector may be wired different. This is why you need to find a diagram for your car
01-12-2008, 12:38 PM
#11
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01-12-2008, 12:44 PM
#12
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when i bought the car it had been parked for some time. It needed a new battery so I got one and it was fine for months. just recently i would find it dead. I figured something was simply draining the battery.
I was driving it around and it would stall now and then, but it would always start right back up.
I came home parked it for the night, went out in the morning, and nothing.
I was driving it around and it would stall now and then, but it would always start right back up.
I came home parked it for the night, went out in the morning, and nothing.
01-12-2008, 12:54 PM
#13
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what condition are the earth leads in and are they making good connections
I have seen in the past where there has been a poor connection to the body and thus every time the car was driven with the lights on the battery would not charge.
also what it meant was that if a meter was used there was still a connection because it was only a light load but once a heavy load was on it it broke down
I have seen in the past where there has been a poor connection to the body and thus every time the car was driven with the lights on the battery would not charge.
also what it meant was that if a meter was used there was still a connection because it was only a light load but once a heavy load was on it it broke down
01-12-2008, 01:05 PM
#16
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quite often there is a seperate cable from the block to the body in a different location and I have seen when people do engine repairs they seem to forget to replace it causeing all sorts of havic with the electricals
Is your car fitted with an Amp meter?
Is your car fitted with an Amp meter?
Last edited by gilesie; 01-12-2008 at 01:20 PM. Reason: adding more information
01-12-2008, 01:53 PM
#19
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inside the car, the dome light worked, the dash worked but not the dash light, the radio would come in and out so i just never had it on. theres an old amp in the trunk, that is unpluged right now. The car was retrofitted with an electric fuel pump, that also was working fine. Glovebox light was fine too.
01-12-2008, 01:55 PM
#20
On grounds or "earth"
It's been a long time, and I don't remember where the body ground is on the Mopars, but here's the important thing
The engine mounts pretty much insulate the engine from the body. THE BIG MAIN ground cable from the battery SHOULD BE on the engine, because this is where the heavy current goes during startup.
However, you should ALSO have at least one jumper from either the battery ground post, or from the engine block, to the body. AT LEAST no10 or larger, and no 10 is really marginal, with heavy loads like AC and big alternators.
I had auxiliary grounds on mine, because of radio equipment. (I could tell ya, but then I'd hav'ta kill ya) I put two straps from the firewall, one using the regulator mounting bolt, down to the block. This sometimes helps with radio noise, as sell as adding "wire capacity" for the ground jumper.
It's been a long time, and I don't remember where the body ground is on the Mopars, but here's the important thing
The engine mounts pretty much insulate the engine from the body. THE BIG MAIN ground cable from the battery SHOULD BE on the engine, because this is where the heavy current goes during startup.
However, you should ALSO have at least one jumper from either the battery ground post, or from the engine block, to the body. AT LEAST no10 or larger, and no 10 is really marginal, with heavy loads like AC and big alternators.
I had auxiliary grounds on mine, because of radio equipment. (I could tell ya, but then I'd hav'ta kill ya) I put two straps from the firewall, one using the regulator mounting bolt, down to the block. This sometimes helps with radio noise, as sell as adding "wire capacity" for the ground jumper.
01-12-2008, 02:00 PM
#21
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the next thing that I would do is check the wiring to the radio to see if it is original to the car or if some body has just done a rough job
if it is not original I would remove the wiring completely (checking along the way to see if the wires have been shorting out)
Also follow the wiring to the amp and disconnect it from where it starts
if it is not original I would remove the wiring completely (checking along the way to see if the wires have been shorting out)
Also follow the wiring to the amp and disconnect it from where it starts
Last edited by gilesie; 01-12-2008 at 02:05 PM. Reason: more info
01-14-2008, 11:24 PM
#23
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Check for power at the Alternator Guage terminals. If you only get power at one terminal,jump across both terminals and see what you get. I have dealt with several Mopars with this problem. it doesn't happen often, but when that guage fails the whole vehicle goes dead.All current to the ignition switch, lights and everything else has to go thru the alternator guage to get to its destination. If this is your problem and you can't replace the guage right away, take both wires off the guage terminals and connect the ring terminals together with a small stovebolt and nut.Tape it up really good or whatever you have to do to make sure that the splice doesn't touch ground.You may have to pull the instrument cluster out to get at it but you may be able to check them for power from under the dash. If this is your problem,at least you will be able to get it off the street.
01-15-2008, 10:32 AM
#24
Moparman, that's a good point. On the older cars that used "full current" ammeters, these connections can be a problem. The very connection studs that make the connections are what holds the ammeter guts in the plastic panel. If they become even slightly loose, they will heat up and melt the dash plastic around them, becoming even MORE loose, thus losing connection.
Also, on at least two cars I've "been into" there's at least one huge splice--in the harness--under the dash, that feeds to and from the "main" feed. This splice--which you have to untape and find in the harness--became corroded and lost connection. An easy fix, once you find it.
On a '69, I had most of the dash pulled apart until I finally found it. Start at the ignition switch and work towards the firewall connector.
There's only one way to find these problems. You actually have to get your hands dirty. I speak from personal experience.
Also, on at least two cars I've "been into" there's at least one huge splice--in the harness--under the dash, that feeds to and from the "main" feed. This splice--which you have to untape and find in the harness--became corroded and lost connection. An easy fix, once you find it.
On a '69, I had most of the dash pulled apart until I finally found it. Start at the ignition switch and work towards the firewall connector.
There's only one way to find these problems. You actually have to get your hands dirty. I speak from personal experience.
01-15-2008, 10:34 AM
#25
the next thing that I would do is check the wiring to the radio to see if it is original to the car or if some body has just done a rough job
if it is not original I would remove the wiring completely (checking along the way to see if the wires have been shorting out)
Also follow the wiring to the amp and disconnect it from where it starts
if it is not original I would remove the wiring completely (checking along the way to see if the wires have been shorting out)
Also follow the wiring to the amp and disconnect it from where it starts
Screw that. Don't be worrying about the radio wiring, until you find the main problem
01-17-2008, 12:08 AM
#27
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but would you not start searching fora problem where you know that one already exists ( or maybe my 25 years as an electrician taught me nothing)
Last edited by gilesie; 01-17-2008 at 12:11 AM. Reason: spelling
01-17-2008, 09:23 AM
#28
The reason that I tried to discourage him from messing with the radio, was that he first said that nothing in the car worked--including the starter--and then later said something about the radio.
For all I know, some kid ran the radio power directly to the battery, maybe without a fuse. I've seen it done.
If I had a car that would not start, or run, I would certainly start with that circuit, rather than worry about non essential accessories.
Besides that, still YET after all these years, having some memory of the wiring path of these cars, I've got a pretty good idea of where the problem could lie
For all I know, some kid ran the radio power directly to the battery, maybe without a fuse. I've seen it done.
If I had a car that would not start, or run, I would certainly start with that circuit, rather than worry about non essential accessories.
Besides that, still YET after all these years, having some memory of the wiring path of these cars, I've got a pretty good idea of where the problem could lie
01-27-2008, 10:52 PM
#29
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Check for power at the Alternator Guage terminals. If you only get power at one terminal,jump across both terminals and see what you get. I have dealt with several Mopars with this problem. it doesn't happen often, but when that guage fails the whole vehicle goes dead.All current to the ignition switch, lights and everything else has to go thru the alternator guage to get to its destination. If this is your problem and you can't replace the guage right away, take both wires off the guage terminals and connect the ring terminals together with a small stovebolt and nut.Tape it up really good or whatever you have to do to make sure that the splice doesn't touch ground.You may have to pull the instrument cluster out to get at it but you may be able to check them for power from under the dash. If this is your problem,at least you will be able to get it off the street.
01-29-2008, 09:07 AM
#30
Baloney. If you have problems with the factory ammeter, the problem MAY WELL cause a fire IF LEFT CONNECTED.
If you properly connect (jumper) the ammeter wires, using, say, a screw and nut!! and tape them up well, you will not cause any fire, unless there is some OTHER problem elsewhere.
I once worked on a Dodge pu with a winch and electric snowplow lift. The dash had started to melt, and caused the ammeter terminals to get loose. The owner approached me, and I did a quick "feel" up under the dash. I nearly burned my fingers!!
This was a really poor design on Mopar's part. On this truck, I pulled the dash, tore apart the ammeter insert, and was able to add two more nuts to tighten the mechanism up against the studs. I had to drill out the origninal (plastic) behind the dash, and remount the ammeter with epoxy. It looked original from the front, and never failed again.
If you properly connect (jumper) the ammeter wires, using, say, a screw and nut!! and tape them up well, you will not cause any fire, unless there is some OTHER problem elsewhere.
I once worked on a Dodge pu with a winch and electric snowplow lift. The dash had started to melt, and caused the ammeter terminals to get loose. The owner approached me, and I did a quick "feel" up under the dash. I nearly burned my fingers!!
This was a really poor design on Mopar's part. On this truck, I pulled the dash, tore apart the ammeter insert, and was able to add two more nuts to tighten the mechanism up against the studs. I had to drill out the origninal (plastic) behind the dash, and remount the ammeter with epoxy. It looked original from the front, and never failed again.
