Points to Electronic Ignition- $REWARD$ for a solution!!
03-25-2014, 09:16 PM
#1
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
Points to Electronic Ignition- $REWARD$ for a solution!!
Hello again! 
I'm having an intermittent issue. When I had the 383 rebuilt, I decided to go with the Proform 66993 Electronic Ignition.
Things were fine for the first 300 miles. Then all of a sudden. It'll die or flat out not start.
Things I've done:
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
It's definitely an electrical issue, BUT I am whits end! :banghead:
Here's the weird part, when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!
My questions:
Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?
If someone does have a pic I just need to see how its wired.
If it is the ECU, how can I test it? If it was bad, it would not allow me to lose all power right?
:banghead:
10.00 Paypal to the person who can help me fix this!
I'm having an intermittent issue. When I had the 383 rebuilt, I decided to go with the Proform 66993 Electronic Ignition.
Things were fine for the first 300 miles. Then all of a sudden. It'll die or flat out not start.
Things I've done:
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
It's definitely an electrical issue, BUT I am whits end! :banghead:
Here's the weird part, when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!
My questions:
Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?
If someone does have a pic I just need to see how its wired.
If it is the ECU, how can I test it? If it was bad, it would not allow me to lose all power right?
:banghead:
10.00 Paypal to the person who can help me fix this!
03-25-2014, 10:36 PM
#2
............................L..................... ......let's.........................sllllllllloooo oooowwwwww..................ddddddooooooowwwwwwwnn nnn
OK? Calm down take a few breaths. About half of what you are saying makes no sense at all
WHON..........Please post the destructions for the Proform wiring
TEUW..........You say you
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
which doesn't make much sense, because a car should run FINE with the regulator and alternator laying on the garage floor
THAREE...You said
"when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!"
which MIGHT ACTUALLY BE a clue to the issue
FAOUR...You said
"Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?"
This is meaningless because we don't know what you are working on, nor do we know what you/ them/ it/ he/ she/ I have for electronic ignition
=========================================
SO
ALPHA..............WHAT YEAR MAKE AND MODEL IS YOUR automobile / rig /vehicle / tractor?
BETA.................As I said earlier, post the destructions for what this Proform is, how it should be
wired, and how you wired it
GAMMA.............LOSING ALL POWER. This here might be "the deal." Again, what year make
and model is your car? You may have a bulkhead connector / fuse link /
ammeter connection problem.
OK? Calm down take a few breaths. About half of what you are saying makes no sense at all
WHON..........Please post the destructions for the Proform wiring
TEUW..........You say you
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
which doesn't make much sense, because a car should run FINE with the regulator and alternator laying on the garage floor
THAREE...You said
"when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!"
which MIGHT ACTUALLY BE a clue to the issue
FAOUR...You said
"Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?"
This is meaningless because we don't know what you are working on, nor do we know what you/ them/ it/ he/ she/ I have for electronic ignition
=========================================
SO
ALPHA..............WHAT YEAR MAKE AND MODEL IS YOUR automobile / rig /vehicle / tractor?
BETA.................As I said earlier, post the destructions for what this Proform is, how it should be
wired, and how you wired it
GAMMA.............LOSING ALL POWER. This here might be "the deal." Again, what year make
and model is your car? You may have a bulkhead connector / fuse link /
ammeter connection problem.
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-26-2014, 06:05 AM
#5
Mopar Lover
It could be alot of things but as 440 said we need more info..Things it could be from what you were saying is: If it dies and wont restart with "no power or nothing" It sounds like a battery positive or ground issue or a ignition feed wire...The first place I would look would be the feed wire to the ign. switch..but that still doesnt explain the headlights..So it sounds more like a positive battery wire feeding the fusible link cluster/connector....Bill
Last edited by pro-tech; 03-26-2014 at 01:28 PM.
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-26-2014, 09:36 AM
#6
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
............................L..................... ......let's.........................sllllllllloooo oooowwwwww..................ddddddooooooowwwwwwwnn nnn
OK? Calm down take a few breaths. About half of what you are saying makes no sense at all
WHON..........Please post the destructions for the Proform wiring-
http://www.proformparts.com/common/i...ibutor_Kit.pdf
TEUW..........You say you
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
which doesn't make much sense, because a car should run FINE with the regulator and alternator laying on the garage floor
THAREE...You said
"when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!"
which MIGHT ACTUALLY BE a clue to the issue
FAOUR...You said
"Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?"
This is meaningless because we don't know what you are working on, nor do we know what you/ them/ it/ he/ she/ I have for electronic ignition
=========================================
SO
ALPHA..............WHAT YEAR MAKE AND MODEL IS YOUR automobile / rig /vehicle / tractor?
It is a 1968 Chrysler Newport 383 4 barrel.
BETA.................As I said earlier, post the destructions for what this Proform is, how it should be
wired, and how you wired it
http://www.proformparts.com/common/i...ibutor_Kit.pdf
GAMMA.............LOSING ALL POWER. This here might be "the deal." Again, what year make
and model is your car? You may have a bulkhead connector / fuse link /
ammeter connection problem.
OK? Calm down take a few breaths. About half of what you are saying makes no sense at all
WHON..........Please post the destructions for the Proform wiring-
http://www.proformparts.com/common/i...ibutor_Kit.pdf
TEUW..........You say you
Changed the voltage regulator
Changed the alternator
Changed the ignition coil
which doesn't make much sense, because a car should run FINE with the regulator and alternator laying on the garage floor
THAREE...You said
"when it dies, I lose all power, no headlights no NOTHING!"
which MIGHT ACTUALLY BE a clue to the issue
FAOUR...You said
"Does anyone have a picture of how they wired their electronic ignition from going to points?"
This is meaningless because we don't know what you are working on, nor do we know what you/ them/ it/ he/ she/ I have for electronic ignition
=========================================
SO
ALPHA..............WHAT YEAR MAKE AND MODEL IS YOUR automobile / rig /vehicle / tractor?
It is a 1968 Chrysler Newport 383 4 barrel.
BETA.................As I said earlier, post the destructions for what this Proform is, how it should be
wired, and how you wired it
http://www.proformparts.com/common/i...ibutor_Kit.pdf
GAMMA.............LOSING ALL POWER. This here might be "the deal." Again, what year make
and model is your car? You may have a bulkhead connector / fuse link /
ammeter connection problem.
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-26-2014, 02:09 PM
#8
from what i hear changing the cars over all elec system to an electric regulator is not really needed. if the the bat voltage stays where it needs to be. i got it from a chrysler factory rep. on the elec ignition system do get two extra ballast resistors and put them in the glove. at the first time you have a no start, just swap out the ballast under the hood.
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
#9
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
The bulkhead / firewall connector, and in these old girls, it causes a LOT of problems.
Read this article:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml
Read this article:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml
1968 Chrysler Newport 383 4 Barrel
I'm liking this idea/thought/suggestion. I did notice some taping at the bulkheads.
I also like the ballast resistor theory too.
I have brand a new battery but will look at the connections
03-26-2014, 02:29 PM
#10
Mopar Lover
from what i hear changing the cars over all elec system to an electric regulator is not really needed. if the the bat voltage stays where it needs to be. i got it from a chrysler factory rep. on the elec ignition system do get two extra ballast resistors and put them in the glove. at the first time you have a no start, just swap out the ballast under the hood.
The following users liked this post:
GrandpasDream (03-27-2014)
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GrandpasDream (03-27-2014)
03-26-2014, 03:07 PM
#13
Mopar Lover
GPsD -
You're getting a lot of good information and some fluff.
First off, you're getting a global electrical shutdown, so you have to think basic - it ain't a secondary loose wire.
That's why you start at the battery and work up and down stream. Unfortunately, you have to wait until it happens again to diagnose it. When it dies, check the battery voltage (terminal to terminal) and repeat after "jumps" or connections both on the positive and negative ends. Voltage drop should be minimal. When you find the dead spot, the connection right before it is the culprit.
Like Bob said, test light (or multimeter) and wiggle.
Just remember, we're not looking for a minor voltage drop, we're looking for "dead".
With global shutdowns, it has to be pretty basic.
Archer
You're getting a lot of good information and some fluff.
First off, you're getting a global electrical shutdown, so you have to think basic - it ain't a secondary loose wire.
That's why you start at the battery and work up and down stream. Unfortunately, you have to wait until it happens again to diagnose it. When it dies, check the battery voltage (terminal to terminal) and repeat after "jumps" or connections both on the positive and negative ends. Voltage drop should be minimal. When you find the dead spot, the connection right before it is the culprit.
Like Bob said, test light (or multimeter) and wiggle.
Just remember, we're not looking for a minor voltage drop, we're looking for "dead".
With global shutdowns, it has to be pretty basic.
Archer
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GrandpasDream (03-27-2014)
03-26-2014, 03:42 PM
#14
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
GPsD -
You're getting a lot of good information and some fluff.
First off, you're getting a global electrical shutdown, so you have to think basic - it ain't a secondary loose wire.
That's why you start at the battery and work up and down stream. Unfortunately, you have to wait until it happens again to diagnose it. When it dies, check the battery voltage (terminal to terminal) and repeat after "jumps" or connections both on the positive and negative ends. Voltage drop should be minimal. When you find the dead spot, the connection right before it is the culprit.
Like Bob said, test light (or multimeter) and wiggle.
Just remember, we're not looking for a minor voltage drop, we're looking for "dead".
With global shutdowns, it has to be pretty basic.
Archer
You're getting a lot of good information and some fluff.
First off, you're getting a global electrical shutdown, so you have to think basic - it ain't a secondary loose wire.
That's why you start at the battery and work up and down stream. Unfortunately, you have to wait until it happens again to diagnose it. When it dies, check the battery voltage (terminal to terminal) and repeat after "jumps" or connections both on the positive and negative ends. Voltage drop should be minimal. When you find the dead spot, the connection right before it is the culprit.
Like Bob said, test light (or multimeter) and wiggle.
Just remember, we're not looking for a minor voltage drop, we're looking for "dead".
With global shutdowns, it has to be pretty basic.
Archer
Thanks for keeping it real and basic as you say- I do appreciate everyone's input though, cause well...you just never know.
Overlooking is easy to do.. Electrical is so tricky, temperamental, hard to trace! My initial thought is YES it's GOT TO BE SOMETHING EASY! And I am sure it is and when I find it,
Ballast resistor, seems to tickle my interest: Why?
I DONT KNOW! I am still stumped.
03-26-2014, 05:08 PM
#15
The ballast might stop the ignition from working BUT THIS will not cause the problem you describe losing all power
LOOK CAREFULLY at the article I posted, the MAD article. This has a very good simplified diagram of how the basic power works in these cars, unmodified:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml
Go down the page, there and look at that diagram
Power for the car follows this path, follow along: From the battery to the "big stud" on the starter relay. From that stud, through the fuse link, through the bulkhead connector and through the firewall into the interior of the car. CHECK RIGHT THERE.
Then power goes to the ammeter CHECK THERE. The ammeter should be "hot" at all times.
NOTICE they go through the ammeter, then changes to a black wire and goes to the WELDED SPLICE. This is a splice in the black ammeter wire up under the dash cluster. This is taped up in the harness a few inches from the ammeter. It is rare, but this harness can come loose. Save this for last
WIGGLE the bulkhead connector with the headlights ON. If you get the headlights to blink or go out, you are likely in the right area
As someone said, CLEAN THE battery terminals.
LOOK CAREFULLY at the article I posted, the MAD article. This has a very good simplified diagram of how the basic power works in these cars, unmodified:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml
Go down the page, there and look at that diagram
Power for the car follows this path, follow along: From the battery to the "big stud" on the starter relay. From that stud, through the fuse link, through the bulkhead connector and through the firewall into the interior of the car. CHECK RIGHT THERE.
Then power goes to the ammeter CHECK THERE. The ammeter should be "hot" at all times.
NOTICE they go through the ammeter, then changes to a black wire and goes to the WELDED SPLICE. This is a splice in the black ammeter wire up under the dash cluster. This is taped up in the harness a few inches from the ammeter. It is rare, but this harness can come loose. Save this for last
WIGGLE the bulkhead connector with the headlights ON. If you get the headlights to blink or go out, you are likely in the right area
As someone said, CLEAN THE battery terminals.
03-26-2014, 05:14 PM
#16
Do yourself a HUGE favor..........
Go here...........
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...p?p=1970088617
and here.......
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31
And find and download yourself a FREE factory service manual
Now I realize that MyMopar does not list one exactly for your car, but if you download, say, the 69 Plymouth manual........
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/ser...ice_Manual.zip
.........and use the "big" car wiring diagrams, this will get you close. In addition, a lot of the stuff pertaining to engines, etc will be the same. Best thing you could do for you and your car is to search and and find and buy the proper service manual. You can find these both "on CD" and "reprint paper" around the internet
Also, MyMopar has simplified wiring diagrams. These are not always completely accurate, and do not show all the optional stuff especiall on the Chryslers
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1968/68ChryslerA.JPG
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1968/68ChryslerB.JPG
Below, I have attached two small segments of the two diagrams posted above, with yellow dots following the main power distro. This follows the simplified diagram which the MAD article shows. It is important to realize that these diagrams, do NOT split the pages "at the firewall." Follow along. Start at the battery. The yellow dots show the power going from the battery to the starter relay stud. This is merely a junction point in this case. From there will be a smaller wire with the fuse link (fuse wire) and this goes through the bulkhead connector. Through terminal "J" of the connector, the RED wire goes to the left off the page.
On the next diagram, the red wire goes to the left to the little block to the far left, which is your ammeter. There it changes color, and comes back to the right on BLACK wire. At the far right of the page, notice that it BRANCHES OFF. This is the welded splice
From there it goes several places............The headlight switch, the ignition switch, the fuse "hot buss", and off through the firewall terminal "P" and goes to the alternator output stud. On some cars, one or two other places
THE MAIN AREAS OF CONCERN
BATTERY CONNECTIONS
BATTERY CABLES
THE FUSE WIRE
THE BULKHEAD CONNECTOR TERMINALS
Less probable
Connections at the ammeter
Failure of the ammeter itself
Failure of the "welded splice"
Go here...........
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/...p?p=1970088617
and here.......
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31
And find and download yourself a FREE factory service manual
Now I realize that MyMopar does not list one exactly for your car, but if you download, say, the 69 Plymouth manual........
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/ser...ice_Manual.zip
.........and use the "big" car wiring diagrams, this will get you close. In addition, a lot of the stuff pertaining to engines, etc will be the same. Best thing you could do for you and your car is to search and and find and buy the proper service manual. You can find these both "on CD" and "reprint paper" around the internet
Also, MyMopar has simplified wiring diagrams. These are not always completely accurate, and do not show all the optional stuff especiall on the Chryslers
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1968/68ChryslerA.JPG
http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1968/68ChryslerB.JPG
Below, I have attached two small segments of the two diagrams posted above, with yellow dots following the main power distro. This follows the simplified diagram which the MAD article shows. It is important to realize that these diagrams, do NOT split the pages "at the firewall." Follow along. Start at the battery. The yellow dots show the power going from the battery to the starter relay stud. This is merely a junction point in this case. From there will be a smaller wire with the fuse link (fuse wire) and this goes through the bulkhead connector. Through terminal "J" of the connector, the RED wire goes to the left off the page.
On the next diagram, the red wire goes to the left to the little block to the far left, which is your ammeter. There it changes color, and comes back to the right on BLACK wire. At the far right of the page, notice that it BRANCHES OFF. This is the welded splice
From there it goes several places............The headlight switch, the ignition switch, the fuse "hot buss", and off through the firewall terminal "P" and goes to the alternator output stud. On some cars, one or two other places
THE MAIN AREAS OF CONCERN
BATTERY CONNECTIONS
BATTERY CABLES
THE FUSE WIRE
THE BULKHEAD CONNECTOR TERMINALS
Less probable
Connections at the ammeter
Failure of the ammeter itself
Failure of the "welded splice"
Last edited by 440roadrunner; 03-26-2014 at 05:31 PM.
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-26-2014, 06:45 PM
#17
My money's on the starter stud. I'm betting on a loose connection...
Also, always take off wedding rings and such when working on this stuff. It may be only 12 volts, but I've seen it weld ratchet wrenches into paperweights. Safety first.
Also, always take off wedding rings and such when working on this stuff. It may be only 12 volts, but I've seen it weld ratchet wrenches into paperweights. Safety first.
Last edited by Mr.4spd; 03-26-2014 at 06:47 PM. Reason: Dying sucks
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GrandpasDream (03-26-2014)
03-27-2014, 08:13 PM
#18
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
PROBLEM SOLVED
Guess what it was!
There was short at the FUSE BOX under the dash!
I ran out of daylight- but when I twisted it around, suddenly I hear a click, click. So I proceeded to turn the key- and she started right up! Then WHILE it was running I jiggled the the fuse box- poof- it DIED no lights no power no nothing!
SO the question is to all who have followed this post, FIRST of all thank you all for giving me hints, thoughts, opinions. BUT who do thinks they should receive the reward? I know it's only 10 bux BUT y'all took time to respond. I'm taking a vote:
Who was the closest to the solution?
There was short at the FUSE BOX under the dash!
I ran out of daylight- but when I twisted it around, suddenly I hear a click, click. So I proceeded to turn the key- and she started right up! Then WHILE it was running I jiggled the the fuse box- poof- it DIED no lights no power no nothing!
SO the question is to all who have followed this post, FIRST of all thank you all for giving me hints, thoughts, opinions. BUT who do thinks they should receive the reward? I know it's only 10 bux BUT y'all took time to respond. I'm taking a vote:
Who was the closest to the solution?
..... Just fix the dam car..
03-28-2014, 10:09 AM
#21
PLEASE read what I posted. REPEAT The headlights do NOT go through the fuse box.
This problem is STILL IN the car
Either you have a bad connection i
the fuse link
the bulkhead connector
or the welded harness splice
AND THAT BAD CONNECTION
is still right there
I'm very sorry to say
You have not fixed it.
03-28-2014, 10:10 AM
#22
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
Fuzzy dice- hmm..I think you're onto something there!
03-28-2014, 10:13 AM
#23
Mopar Fan
Thread Starter
I'm very sorry to have to tell you this...............you have not 'fixed' it. The headlights do NOT go through the fuse box.
PLEASE read what I posted. REPEAT The headlights do NOT go through the fuse box.
This problem is STILL IN the car
Either you have a bad connection i
the fuse link
the bulkhead connector
or the welded harness splice
AND THAT BAD CONNECTION
is still right there
I'm very sorry to say
You have not fixed it.
PLEASE read what I posted. REPEAT The headlights do NOT go through the fuse box.
This problem is STILL IN the car
Either you have a bad connection i
the fuse link
the bulkhead connector
or the welded harness splice
AND THAT BAD CONNECTION
is still right there
I'm very sorry to say
You have not fixed it.
03-28-2014, 03:48 PM
#25
The ignition does not go through the fuse box. Look over what I posted. As you wiggle the fuse panel, you are also moving something else without realizing it. You are either moving the bulkhead connector or the ammeter connection, or the "welded splice." This is the only three things it can possibly be, unless someone has "hacked" the wiring.
Look very carefully at that "MAD" diagram which even though simplified, accurately depicts just exactly how the basic main power is distributed
Power comes off the battery, and goes through the fuse link, and through one terminal of the bulkhead connector
STOP RIGHT THERE
These bulkhead terminal connectors are very prone to destruction READ the MAD article. WIGGLE the bulkhead connector, inside and out. That right there could be the problem.
NEXT, power goes up to the ammeter
STOP
Power has FIVE points of interest, there!!!! two wire crimp connectors!!! two stud and nut connectors!!! and the "guts" of the ammeter. Each and every one of those FIVE individual points can fail!!! Gingerly move your hand up there and "carefully" feel for heat with the headlights on. "Move" and "wiggle" things around. Watch for things stop working
NEXT. Is the welded splice in the ammeter wire. There is not much you can do, except "save it for last. THESE DO FAIL. If you check everything else and satisfy yourself that everything else is FOR SURE good, you are going to have to attack the welded splice. In my lifetime, I'm aware of at least 6 or 8 of these that have failed. Over on another board, in the last couple of years, there's been two that been found failed.
LOOK AT the "MAD" diagram. The "welded splice is taped up, in the harness, up in the dash harness, a few inches from the ammeter in the black ammeter wire. LOOK at what comes off there. It feeds power FROM the ammeter TO
the headlights
the fuse panel
the ignition switch
NOTICE that NEITHER the headlights nor ignition goes through the fuse panel.
Look very carefully at that "MAD" diagram which even though simplified, accurately depicts just exactly how the basic main power is distributed
Power comes off the battery, and goes through the fuse link, and through one terminal of the bulkhead connector
STOP RIGHT THERE
These bulkhead terminal connectors are very prone to destruction READ the MAD article. WIGGLE the bulkhead connector, inside and out. That right there could be the problem.
NEXT, power goes up to the ammeter
STOP
Power has FIVE points of interest, there!!!! two wire crimp connectors!!! two stud and nut connectors!!! and the "guts" of the ammeter. Each and every one of those FIVE individual points can fail!!! Gingerly move your hand up there and "carefully" feel for heat with the headlights on. "Move" and "wiggle" things around. Watch for things stop working
NEXT. Is the welded splice in the ammeter wire. There is not much you can do, except "save it for last. THESE DO FAIL. If you check everything else and satisfy yourself that everything else is FOR SURE good, you are going to have to attack the welded splice. In my lifetime, I'm aware of at least 6 or 8 of these that have failed. Over on another board, in the last couple of years, there's been two that been found failed.
LOOK AT the "MAD" diagram. The "welded splice is taped up, in the harness, up in the dash harness, a few inches from the ammeter in the black ammeter wire. LOOK at what comes off there. It feeds power FROM the ammeter TO
the headlights
the fuse panel
the ignition switch
NOTICE that NEITHER the headlights nor ignition goes through the fuse panel.
Last edited by 440roadrunner; 03-28-2014 at 03:56 PM.
03-28-2014, 03:53 PM
#26
Mopar Lover
The fuse box is fed by a fusible link and if you follow it back it will be spliced into a bunch of fusible links. Under the hood of the car...When you play with the fuse box it is pulling enough on the fusible links to break the connection/battery feed to the fuse box,headlights, ignition feed,Etc...Nobody want the reward we all help each other out here and enjoy doing it...We are all like family here..We hurt when someone is hurting and rejoice when someone is happy and is motoring...Bill
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