PLEASE HELP,TIMING, ETC Problems

[menomoniemopars]

well Made some progress today and still baffled on other stuff,lol.. Moved the #1 cylinder to TDC and moved pulleys till no more top movement on piston.. was lined right up on zero on balancer..Pulled cap it was off so i pulled dist and pulled bottom gear up and turned one notch back to line up with #1 terminal better... car started and ran ok... thru a timing light on it mark still nowhere to be seen til i dialed it up to about 26 degrees on gun to get it to line up with 5* BTDC... I also took dist apart and verified weights and all weren't stuck out!... I have no clue why I can't see that mark!...also pulled piece of crap edlebrock carb off(1406)( new).. and the one float had to much drop and the damn cross pin was only in halfway! So Fixed that ,But Haven't ran it again.. Had to get some sleep have to work this afternoon!.. also the car still got hot!, But according to thermometer wasn't real bad right around 2-210 maybe? But U could hear it boiling inside still..How easy should a clutch fan turn?.. I think I am getting rid of it and buying a flex fan and 1" spacer as it turns awful easy to me not much resistance when u spin it etc..

[scotts74birds]

Is your motor all original? From my chevy experience, I think they used different balancers that would not line timing marks on the wrong motor. Could also have slipped the rubber isolator ring on yours. Maybe some of the real gearheads here can tell you what the proper orientation of the crank keyway is in relation to the timing mark on the mopar motors. But from what I've seen in the catalogs, the timing mark appears to be aligned with the crank keyway. Please check with other folks before digging into this, I dont want to steer you wrong.

[menomoniemopars]

Its stock from what i was told.. cam not so sure on?...The problem I am having is if i turn dist to advance it to get the mark to line up i don't think it will start as its way to advanced then on the initial!. Not even sure I can turn it that far and it run.. cause it sounds like it starts laboring there also casue to much advance.. I am hoping that carb being somewhat screwed up was making it idle like shi*!... wont know til i get other fan on and carb back on and try it again!..

[menomoniemopars]

I worked on it some again tonight after work.. and if i retard it far enough i can get the mark almost to 5 BTDC, But in no way is the motor happy there!.won't run worth ****!. Starting to think the dist is screwy? have a 73 charger with same dist thinking of trying it in the 340?.. what do u think?

[theomahamoparguy]

I'm not sure that replacing the dizzy is gonna help. Your timing light gets its signal from the plug firing the #1 plug. It does not matter where the wire is in the cap. Just as long as the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug wire position at top dead center of the compression stroke. Hell, if its not pointing to #1, put the #1 in that position of the cap, then proceed around the cap with the firing order. dont worry about the book. find top dead center of the compression stroke and line up #1. By tyhe way. when you are finding top dead center with your thumb over the plug hole, you should be able to see the line on the dampner (bring it around til it lines up) that should line up with the pointer on the timing cover. If this does not happen, all bets are off. You can not use a timing light unless the pointer will line up with the mark on the dampner in correspondence with top dead center on the copression stroke. If this is the case, you might as well through the timing light in the trash.If so, Set the dizzy to where the motor turns over some what sluggish than back off the timing about 15-20 degrees.(til it turns over easier) you should be in the ball park.

[menomoniemopars]

Yep... Did all that got it exactly on TDC no more movement of piston, and line was on zero. and rotor is very close to #1 terminal atleast the one I made #1 and the car starts and runs and i can turn the dist and with my dial on gun retard it to around 15 degrees on my dial anymore than that it does not want to run very good at all!.. book says 5 BTDC..... I can go over to the charger(318) and set gun at zero and the light will read right at 10 BTDC on the timing tab right where it is suppose to on the car!... something is screwey somewhere...? for you How are the springs suppose to look inside the mech advance the one is longer on the hook end where it hooks around the pin? is that right? so when weight spins out then it is in complete contact with the pin? seems weird to me?

[menomoniemopars]

Well went to a friends today has alot of mopar stuff, and he had a 69 timing cover and balancer and early 70's timing cover and balancer... and their different as I suspected, just have to see what balancer I have now.. then remark mine to match the later cover and then I should be able to time it!!

[menomoniemopars]

I cannot get this thing to run right!! Its a 69 says so on block, but yet it has the damn drivers side cover on it.. I have set TDC#1, got oil pump slot and rotor pointing at 2 nd intake bolt on drivers side.. It refuses to run right! i tried setting total at 2500 and I had to retard the damn thing so far it wouldn't even run!! wtf is wrong here?!! I had my brother come over and help me too , and he is stumped at this point too, plus he is a pontiac man,knows them well. I can't believe someone on here can't help out?...

[jdb440challenger]

Hey I have a very similar problem, just going the other way. I have 440 with a new 509 cam in it, timing chain lined up ok, Balancer TDC mark and piston TDC lined up on compression stroke. But I can't get the car to run below 30 deg BTDC at idle. When I rev it up, there is no detonation and runs strong. At 30 deg BTDC I am only getting about 8 on my vacuum gauge and weak power brake performance. I am stumped just like you.

[menomoniemopars]

Yea I am hoping I found the problem!I checked for timing chain slop and by setting it at zero on the timing tab and then rotating it back the rotor doesn't even begin to move till a good 10* + ! Thinking worn chain and even maybe jumped a tooth!...I can't believe someone would rebuild a damn engine and use a damn used chain!! will know when its torn down up front

[mod381]

Sorry not trying to hijak your topic,but I too have same problem as you with my 408 I just built. I know cam timing is correct,damper has not slipped (brand new) verified with checking with piston,tried 2 different distributers,ign modules,2 different timing lights and am competely stumped with it. Mine will not run at all unless initial timing is set to about 40 degrees and then it runs ok. One thing I did notice is that there is no advance curve at all in timing,if it is set at 40 intial at 3000 it is also at 40. Again not trying to hijak,just looking for ideas as my problem is exactly the same as yours and all my engine internals are new.

[menomoniemopars]

well got timing cover off today chain is shot! be putting a new one on friday hope to have good results for you all!!

[67 GTX]

are you gonna put a double roller chain on it?

[mod381]

Do not know if it your issue also but another distributor fixed mine.

[menomoniemopars]

Yes bought a SA gear double roller....tried a different distributor before all this same B.S!.. Here is a pic of the old and new one... hoping to have it running tuesday as the radiator even tho had a new core was 3/4 plugged!!

[theomahamoparguy]

wow this is becoming a long thread. I hope you figure it out though, sincerely.
Keep plugging away at it. {i ran out of ideas}

[menomoniemopars]

Ok update! Wont even fire now!! I installed the timing chain the way it came off with #1 at TDC.. zero on balancer and cam gear dot at 12 and crank gear dot at 12 dist pointing @ #1 Terminal is that correct? I did a comp check and spark check they do not happen at the same time tho! the spark occurs after the TDC mark is about 5" past zero.. whats wrong? and how can it run before and Now I put the marks exactly how i took it apart and not run now?


The weird thing is I didn't even pull the dist out when we did this nor did i loosen any rocker shaft when i installed chain..So How did the dist get off? the dist can only go two ways 180 or on... however there is a gear that is driven off the cam that runs the oil pump which the dist slot goes in,Is that the one i need to turn back so it fires when it comes to TDC? Cause right now it fires one or two terminals past number 1 ., and Balancr at this point is 5" past the zero mark.I varified this with my timing light and cranking over motor
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[menomoniemopars]

Ok here's what I did tonight we looked at his 318 and where to rotor was at on TDC and then I took the oil pump gear and turned it to same relation and it fired right up!. we looked at the 318 for slop in rotor it is like 15 degrees! but it runs like a champ also the timing mark is dead steady! the 340 using the 318 dist mind you still has the mark bouncing all over the damn place even with a new timing chain! so is that back gear shot then? making the timing erradict? and would the car still run rough at idle with it doing that? its running pretty good ,but at idle it doesn't run well I have the idle turned up so it will run.. don't know what cam is in it? it revs out nice when revving in in park so i am guessing someone down the road changed out the cam..

[richinny]

what idle speed are you shooting for?

[menomoniemopars]

Well 800 would be nice, but i don't have a tach so guessing at this point..I think that timing mark being the way it is is effecting it at idle!

[richinny]

i'd try a new drive gear. at least you'd eliminate that as a possibility.

a non stock cam usually requires a higher than stock idle speed.

[menomoniemopars]

Yea WAs thinking of pulling the one out of the charger since we know that timing is steady!..I was hoping to change the plate in the dist so i could run more intital but keep my same total.. are those available? or do u just have to braze and file? also the number stamped on them is that the degrees? like mine is 13.. so thats 26 at crank? this is a electronic by the way.. thanks!

[theomahamoparguy]

yeah braze and file {or weld} for a stock dizzy.
correct on the 13 equals 26 on the crank

[menomoniemopars]

well bought a new dist , a new oil pump drive gear , and a new igniton module or box... well see what that does.. If the timing mark is still very erradict after all this then what? the cam thrust plate is worn and cam walking in tunnel?

[menomoniemopars]

Well put a new dist in and that new gear. Slop is now ONLY 2 degrees!! ,but now it won't even fire! How critical is placement of that dist oil gear>?..Cause right now it sparks just after it reaches TDC.. still off a tooth on that gear?...Could someone please respond if u know?!