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Old 04-21-2010, 09:47 AM   #1
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Question 1998 Chrysler Cirrus 2.5L wont start

Last night daughter started said car drove for like 300 feet then just shut off. A near by "mechanic" in the parking lot told her it was the fuel pump. So I show up with a rubber mallet and a flash light.
  • I crawl under tell her to turn the key to the on position, could not here fuel pump. So I told her to actually crank it while I percceded to bang on the tank. Nothing.
  • So I come to the front and pull the fuel line at the rail, tell her to turn to the on position nothing no fuel from line. reconnect.
  • Check fuel pump fuse. OK
  • Swap fuel pump relay with TCM relay, still nothing.
Go to late night Autozone get carb cleaner.
  • Spay a little in TB while she cranks, nothing.
  • Tow home. Pull spark plug and try to see if it has spark, nothing(unless I was testing wrong. Put plug into boot and ground spark plug to engine right??)
So my question is where should I start looking? Wiring or am I missing something all together? I appreciate any and all replies!!! Thanks ahead of time.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:02 AM   #2
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C-

OK, been there, done that. Since the car has a computer in it, the answer is ... almost anything.

In my case the was the crank sensor (I didn't even know I had one ...)

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Old 04-21-2010, 10:45 AM   #3
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So would no crank signal result in no fuel and not being able to here fuel pump?

I scanned it with a little code reader and there were no codes????

Thanks!!!
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Old 04-21-2010, 11:45 AM   #4
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C-

Understand the following: except for having a '98 Sebring with the 2.5L as my daily driver, I know nothing about cars after 1976 or so ...

IIRC there wasn't a fuel smell when mine went south, so I'm lead to believe that a faulty crank sensor effectively shuts down everything. The difference between your scenario and mine, was that mine wouldn't start cold and yours was running when it stopped.

Wish I could be of more help.

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Old 04-21-2010, 01:23 PM   #5
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No you are a great help so far I am just try to understand

I was leaning towards crank before all this anyway. For the longest time it has had an issue with "stalling/dieing". While the daughter is driving and when she comes to a stop the idle falls as well as the gauges' needles fall, and it dies for a split second comes back, idle races then comes to normal idle(all at the first seconds of coming to a stop)
Could this be a predecessor to the present issue???
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Old 04-21-2010, 01:27 PM   #6
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Thinking back I think your right no crank signal no fuel or spark.
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:08 PM   #7
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C -

That wasn't my experience with the crank sensor, the engine was either running fine or just wouldn't start, no middle ground.

Definitely sounds like some thing electrical or computer related, I like computers, just not in cars ...

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:29 PM   #8
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Hey buddy! Did you look at your old thread with this problem? I think I described the symptoms of a CPS failure pretty close to what you have now. CPS= $50...Fuel pump=$200. Once again, if the computer is NOT seeing the inputs it wants [i.e. crank signal] it will NOT tell the pump to turn on, and will NOT fire the coil either. Are we getting a "no-spark" condition also? If you bought a Haynes manual, as recommended, I believe there are testing methods in there for the CrankPS, and the not-so-likely-but-still-possible cam position sensor.

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:59 PM   #9
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Guess I did really put two and two together but now that it is a hard fail. I think my duaghter will be purchasing a Haynes and some parts.


Wait til I post pics of her motor mounts or lack there of.

Thanks for the replies. I will keep you all updated of my progress and probably more questions.

What about an ASD relay does this vehicle have one could that be a viable cause???
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:13 PM   #10
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I guess this could maybe help i dont know.
98 Chrysler Cirrus
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:11 PM   #11
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You could swap the asd with any relay under the hood if you want and see if that is it. But GET THE BOOK! Your first fix will pay for it twice over! If you werent so far away, I'd offer $500 to "take it off your hands" and drive it for years! GOOD car, GOOD motor. We all know that changing parts, and making the car run is fun, but you GOTTA do the homework. Troubleshooting is HOURS of dead-ends! And NOT always fun! But you ALWAYS walk away smarter! And THAT knowledge transfers to everything else you touch.

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Old 04-22-2010, 11:58 AM   #12
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So I bought a Haynes manual and. . . . well let me get the pics of what I have done first. then. . . .
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:09 PM   #13
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Ok first tried in the parking lot.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:10 PM   #14
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oops sorry forgot to scale down.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:11 PM   #15
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Then this today.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:12 PM   #16
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Then with this connected cranked and watched the RPMs and there were none.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:16 PM   #17
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Then with the Haynes in hand found that the fuel system and ignition systems will not operate with out the PCM receiving a signal from this jewelClick the image to open in full size..

So I need to get the banker aka daughter and find us a crank sensor and go from there.
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotts74birds View Post
Hey buddy! Did you look at your old thread with this problem? I think I described the symptoms of a CPS failure pretty close to what you have now. CPS= $50...Fuel pump=$200. Once again, if the computer is NOT seeing the inputs it wants [i.e. crank signal] it will NOT tell the pump to turn on, and will NOT fire the coil either. Are we getting a "no-spark" condition also? If you bought a Haynes manual, as recommended, I believe there are testing methods in there for the CrankPS, and the not-so-likely-but-still-possible cam position sensor.
Quote:Crmzendrgone.. "Then with the Haynes in hand found that the fuel system and ignition systems will not operate with out the PCM receiving a signal from this jewel"

Is there an echo in here?! HaHa!

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Old 04-25-2010, 10:40 PM   #19
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well my head is hallow so things can echo around in there. Tonight I plan to go play with it.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotts74birds View Post
Quote:Crmzendrgone.. "Then with the Haynes in hand found that the fuel system and ignition systems will not operate with out the PCM receiving a signal from this jewel"

Is there an echo in here?! HaHa!
"It's déjà vu all over again"
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:25 PM   #21
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pretty funny. Actually had to ask a co worker right now what the significance of the image was for but I got now.

Wasn't able to get to the car last night, LIFE so I will hopefully get to it tonight.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:59 AM   #22
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ok last night I got the crank sensor off and proceded to test it. now if I did this right then the signal voltage is not correct which tells me what?? the book says should be 8.0v it was .2 if I tested it right check image.

Then I couldn't figure out how to back probe the sensor while installed and crank it over see to check if the sensor is bad. I will play with that tonight. so. . .

Now it says if the signal volts are not 8.0 check for a short or check the wire. but it was at .20 so what does that mean.
If you all can not tell I am not to electrical.
It says that if there is no signal voltage than I need to take to the dealer for PCM check. but it has some so . . . I guess I am stuck about the fact it has some, it is not a definite 8.0 or 0.0??

Click the image to open in full size.

Now is this the right way or was I way off???
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:14 PM   #23
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Hi buddy! Did the book mention REMOVING the sender to do this test? How I checked mine was to backprobe the signal wire and crank the motor, looking for the "pulse" on the signal wire as the "tone wheel" spun. Was there any sign of physical wear, bulging, bubbling of the plastic, heat? If you do your test as you said, then when voltage is applied to the sender, you should get a signal if you hold it to a ferrous object. In essence it is a magnetic proximity switch. Mine was very intermittent on the pulses, and once warm, would die completely
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:13 PM   #24
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Question

Yes I removed it. there was no way I could have got my fat hands and DVOM down there.

The book said check signal orange with key on engine off NO crank. then check voltage to sensor while cranking engine.

So what I did removed the sensor while still connected key on NO crank probed it and got .20v. then with key on NO crank ran a pocket screw driver across the sensor and saw nothing well it showed .01 or was it .1 anyway it would jump from .01-.02 or .1-.2 that was every few strokes with the screw driver.

Now is that a good way to test it?

I will take a pic of the sensor tonight and let you decide. the top where the wires go in looks like it has heat issuses but that could be just how it was molded.

THanks!!!
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:38 PM   #25
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Well, you got it out, you are halfway there. Think you might get a new one and test it since it wont be installed and greasy so you can still return it? Also ohm the resistance between the + and - of the two. I forget the miles you said way back when, but this is a common part. Just ask the parts store guy how many he sells!
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:31 PM   #26
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What should the Ohms be?
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:45 PM   #27
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One may be different than the other! The values are not always published.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:52 PM   #28
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ok so ball park what should I be looking for 0-100?????
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:49 AM   #29
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I did not realize that was a question. duh

No the book did not say to remove it, I removed it cause I didnt know how else to back probe it??
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:26 AM   #30
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Quote:
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I did not realize that was a question. duh

No the book did not say to remove it, I removed it cause I didnt know how else to back probe it??
huh huh huh, he said back probe...
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:26 AM
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