Headers in a Mopar 440

Commando · 08-05-2008, 04:55 PM

I have a question for anyone that has encountered this while installing headers. When I removed the manifold studs I noticed that all of the holes go into the water jacket, so that when I put the headers in the bolts will also go into the water jacket, so what do I need to do to seal the bolts?

I appreciate any feedback on this. -Thanks

Doc · 08-05-2008, 06:45 PM

A dab of RTV should prevent any leakage.

Commando · 08-05-2008, 06:59 PM

Use it like lock-tite, or put it on the end of the bolt and hope that it seals?

Doc · 08-05-2008, 08:55 PM

First ... how loose are the bolts ...in the heads ?

Commando · 08-06-2008, 05:06 AM

I have not put them in yet, but I assumed that the studs I pulled out were sealed well. Also I have not dealt with the holes going into the water jackets before, so I want to proceed with caution just in case there is a problem that could occur.

Doc · 08-06-2008, 02:52 PM

Put some on the threads and you should be good-to-go.

Commando · 08-06-2008, 05:44 PM

Ok thats sounds good, thanks for the help.

Doc · 08-06-2008, 09:22 PM

C-Guy .... that RTV makes the possibility of the bolts corroding in there much less too.

Commando · 08-07-2008, 05:06 AM

When I pulled the studs out they were all corroded and rusty on the ends. I asked another friend of mine about what he does in these situations, and he said he uses Boiler putty, have you ever heard of that?

Doc · 08-07-2008, 09:15 AM

Boiler putty ?... ?? .... never heard of that !!

That rust and corrosion is probably caused by running straight water in the cooling system.

Commando · 08-07-2008, 03:33 PM

My mechanic recommended that, been working on Mopars since the 60's. I only asked him yesterday, also he said that the rtv may melt and go into the coolant, have you done this before?

Doc · 08-07-2008, 05:04 PM

Melt the RTV ?... ?? ...I can not imagine this happening. It would have to be only a cheap household grade to do that.

Commando · 08-07-2008, 05:40 PM

Whats the temp rating on the quality you would use for that? I melted through high temp spark plug wires with these headers, had to get those real high temp sleeves put on the wires to prevent melting, so I am always leery of products that do not have specific temperature ratings or are under 1200-1500 degree.

Doc · 08-07-2008, 07:08 PM

Any automotive-grade RTV should work fine. I think the typical blue or black is 4-500 degrees. The gold or bronze(which some have used to seal actual exhaust leaks - not me though) .... is 8-900 degrees - I believe.

Now what would an exhaust stud see(deep in the head like that) as far as temp? .... ?? ... maybe 400 degrees.

challenger · 08-07-2008, 08:42 PM

Hey Commando i would recomend using the Loctite RTV 5920 Copper Silicone ,, it is non corrosive like diolectric grease and withstands temps 700 degrees and would put it on the threads about 1/8 of an inch above bottom / i use it all the time and never have leaks

Commando · 08-08-2008, 05:06 AM

Thats true Doc, it has the temperature of the coolant, and there is some space between it and where the exhaust ports are.

I will look into that Challenger, sounds like a good product. What do you mean by bottom, do you mean the end of the bolt?

Another reason I am being cautious, is that they all go into the water jacket, not just the end ones. (I may have said that already)

Doc · 08-08-2008, 03:58 PM

THIS is a good thing to do ... plus it also prevents the steel stud from corroding into the alum head.

74fldart · 11-06-2008, 05:07 PM

i agree, i use it all the time for the studs and never have a problem.

Commando · 11-06-2008, 05:40 PM

I grabbed a tube of the copper, not sure if I am going to need it now, as I am replacing the heads with some Edelbrock ones.

challenger · 11-06-2008, 08:13 PM

Hey C dont forget to use anti sieze anyways , always use it on bolts and nuts so they dont corode in aluminum ok

Commando · 11-06-2008, 10:09 PM

Anti seize? Like loc-tite, or do you mean something else? just if it is bolted into the aluminum, or passing through as well?

BuckNeccid · 11-07-2008, 06:37 AM

Anti seize is about the opposite of loctite. It tries to prevent the interaction of dissimilar metals that cause the quick, thick corrosion and almost impossible disassembly of parts. We use it a LOT on locomotives, and it do work. Even tho it's way more expensive, I'd use the copper based anti seize due to the prolonged hi temps, and the cost of your heads. Someone earlier asked about Bolier Putty. Basically the same thing as Oakum, plumber's putty, etc. It's a waxy type stuff that was used way back when and is good for a lot of things, but I dont think I would use it to seal threads going into a head.

challenger · 11-07-2008, 02:48 PM

hey C go up 8 post and remember what i said about the Loctite RTV 5920 and you can use it like antisieze or if you are going with the aluminum heads then you can just use regular antisieze ... you can get the gray stuff from your local hardware or if you know a cat dealer in your area get there copper based antisieze ( catterpillar as in dozers / loaders / graders and earthmovers )

78D200 · 11-08-2008, 05:49 AM

that copper based anit-seize is some really good stuff. we use it at work on some bolts. touch stuff, especially to clean off.

challenger · 11-08-2008, 01:32 PM

hey guys sorry about the mad smilie i didnt put it on there on my last answer i dont know how it got there hummm must be gremlins

and 78 , the cat dealer used to give us that antisieze like crazy but even they are cutting back on things they give out as even a hat is hard to come by , boy this economy sucks but at least the gas prices were at 1.89 today and my diesel is 3.29 guess we are still using more diesel these days

Commando · 11-09-2008, 08:49 PM

Ok I will look into that, now that you mention hat I have been unable to find my Cat Hat, great quality nice fit, damnit. That all makes sense I will use it as that seems important.

challenger · 11-10-2008, 03:10 PM

you better find that hat C as like i said even they are hard to get

Commando · 11-26-2008, 06:33 PM

I got another question regarding these headers, has anyone every used fireplace paint on headers before? I think that it would be the best as I already paid 300 for paint that burned off.

78D200 · 11-27-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commando

I got another question regarding these headers, has anyone every used fireplace paint on headers before? I think that it would be the best as I already paid 300 for paint that burned off.

WOW!

I know of shops around me that will do ceramic coating for half that price. You should have gotten a high temp primer and paint in the rattle cans. As long as the headers were completely clean, the paint should have stuck.

I'm not sure about firplace paint but if you do, make sure that you clean off all the old paint. Sand blasting is a great way. Then clean them with mild soap and water.

08-05-2008, 04:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Headers in a Mopar 440 I have a question for anyone that has encountered this while installing headers. When I removed the manifold studs I noticed that all of the holes go into the water jacket, so that when I put the headers in the bolts will also go into the water jacket, so what do I need to do to seal the bolts? I appreciate any feedback on this. -Thanks

08-07-2008, 07:08 PM	#14 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Any automotive-grade RTV should work fine. I think the typical blue or black is 4-500 degrees. The gold or bronze(which some have used to seal actual exhaust leaks - not me though) .... is 8-900 degrees - I believe. Now what would an exhaust stud see(deep in the head like that) as far as temp? .... ?? ... maybe 400 degrees. Last edited by Doc; 08-07-2008 at 07:10 PM.

08-08-2008, 05:06 AM	#16 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Thats true Doc, it has the temperature of the coolant, and there is some space between it and where the exhaust ports are. I will look into that Challenger, sounds like a good product. What do you mean by bottom, do you mean the end of the bolt? Another reason I am being cautious, is that they all go into the water jacket, not just the end ones. (I may have said that already) Last edited by Commando; 08-08-2008 at 07:16 AM.

11-08-2008, 05:49 AM	#24 (permalink)
78D200 Ph.D in wheelinology Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Manchester, NH Posts: 461	that copper based anit-seize is some really good stuff. we use it at work on some bolts. touch stuff, especially to clean off. __________________ Tim and Heather 1974 J10 - getting built up some more. built 360, built TH400, D300, D60(detroit)/14B(spool), SOA, inboard rear 64" springs, 38.5 thornbirds jeep pics - http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s63/jeeping1974/J10/

08-05-2008, 06:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	A dab of RTV should prevent any leakage.

08-05-2008, 06:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Use it like lock-tite, or put it on the end of the bolt and hope that it seals?

08-05-2008, 08:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	First ... how loose are the bolts ...in the heads ?

08-06-2008, 05:06 AM	#5 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	I have not put them in yet, but I assumed that the studs I pulled out were sealed well. Also I have not dealt with the holes going into the water jackets before, so I want to proceed with caution just in case there is a problem that could occur.

08-06-2008, 02:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Put some on the threads and you should be good-to-go.

08-06-2008, 05:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Ok thats sounds good, thanks for the help.

08-06-2008, 09:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	C-Guy .... that RTV makes the possibility of the bolts corroding in there much less too.

08-07-2008, 05:06 AM	#9 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	When I pulled the studs out they were all corroded and rusty on the ends. I asked another friend of mine about what he does in these situations, and he said he uses Boiler putty, have you ever heard of that?

08-07-2008, 09:15 AM	#10 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Boiler putty ?... ?? .... never heard of that !! That rust and corrosion is probably caused by running straight water in the cooling system.

08-07-2008, 03:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	My mechanic recommended that, been working on Mopars since the 60's. I only asked him yesterday, also he said that the rtv may melt and go into the coolant, have you done this before?

08-07-2008, 05:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	Melt the RTV ?... ?? ...I can not imagine this happening. It would have to be only a cheap household grade to do that.

08-07-2008, 05:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Whats the temp rating on the quality you would use for that? I melted through high temp spark plug wires with these headers, had to get those real high temp sleeves put on the wires to prevent melting, so I am always leery of products that do not have specific temperature ratings or are under 1200-1500 degree.

08-07-2008, 08:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
challenger Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 427	Hey Commando i would recomend using the Loctite RTV 5920 Copper Silicone ,, it is non corrosive like diolectric grease and withstands temps 700 degrees and would put it on the threads about 1/8 of an inch above bottom / i use it all the time and never have leaks

08-08-2008, 03:58 PM	#17 (permalink)
Doc MasterDebater Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: nw lower Meeeechigan Posts: 673	THIS is a good thing to do ... plus it also prevents the steel stud from corroding into the alum head.

11-06-2008, 05:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
74fldart Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: orlando , fl. Posts: 8	i agree, i use it all the time for the studs and never have a problem.

11-06-2008, 05:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	I grabbed a tube of the copper, not sure if I am going to need it now, as I am replacing the heads with some Edelbrock ones.

11-06-2008, 08:13 PM	#20 (permalink)
challenger Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 427	Hey C dont forget to use anti sieze anyways , always use it on bolts and nuts so they dont corode in aluminum ok

11-06-2008, 10:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Anti seize? Like loc-tite, or do you mean something else? just if it is bolted into the aluminum, or passing through as well?

11-07-2008, 06:37 AM	#22 (permalink)
BuckNeccid Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: South Point OH Posts: 64	Anti seize is about the opposite of loctite. It tries to prevent the interaction of dissimilar metals that cause the quick, thick corrosion and almost impossible disassembly of parts. We use it a LOT on locomotives, and it do work. Even tho it's way more expensive, I'd use the copper based anti seize due to the prolonged hi temps, and the cost of your heads. Someone earlier asked about Bolier Putty. Basically the same thing as Oakum, plumber's putty, etc. It's a waxy type stuff that was used way back when and is good for a lot of things, but I dont think I would use it to seal threads going into a head.

11-07-2008, 02:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
challenger Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 427	hey C go up 8 post and remember what i said about the Loctite RTV 5920 and you can use it like antisieze or if you are going with the aluminum heads then you can just use regular antisieze ... you can get the gray stuff from your local hardware or if you know a cat dealer in your area get there copper based antisieze ( catterpillar as in dozers / loaders / graders and earthmovers )

11-08-2008, 01:32 PM	#25 (permalink)
challenger Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 427	hey guys sorry about the mad smilie i didnt put it on there on my last answer i dont know how it got there hummm must be gremlins and 78 , the cat dealer used to give us that antisieze like crazy but even they are cutting back on things they give out as even a hat is hard to come by , boy this economy sucks but at least the gas prices were at 1.89 today and my diesel is 3.29 guess we are still using more diesel these days

11-09-2008, 08:49 PM	#26 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	Ok I will look into that, now that you mention hat I have been unable to find my Cat Hat, great quality nice fit, damnit. That all makes sense I will use it as that seems important.

11-10-2008, 03:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
challenger Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: MICHIGAN Posts: 427	you better find that hat C as like i said even they are hard to get

11-26-2008, 06:33 PM	#28 (permalink)
Commando Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 423	I got another question regarding these headers, has anyone every used fireplace paint on headers before? I think that it would be the best as I already paid 300 for paint that burned off.