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TTOTM - Big blocks
This month we will be talking about big blocks. Everything from rebuilding one back to stock condition, making it into a racing motor, IDing them, what years are the most desired, etc. Let the discussing begin.
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Originally Posted by 78D200
(Post 54188)
what years are the most desired
some say that the later 440's (late 70's) were weak (thin-wall castings) if have read both sides of that story some say that the later 440's are even stronger, because they have thicker webbing in the block (also keep in mind that later 440's, especially those from trucks or Winnebago's might be 20-30 lbs heavier do so some extra castings on the side of the block) during the late 60's and early 70's, there were HP blocks. these blocks are supposed to be more forgiving to power, but this isn't really true. They are worth more due to the rarity and since they fit in the time period of most muscle cars, but any 440 is ok for a build. I can't comment on which blocks will be stronger if you put 1000+ horsepower into them, but any of the 440 BLOCKS are strong enough to take well over 500 horsepower (i capitalizes blocks because the internal components of the later 440 blocks maybe not be too strong). |
I'll chime in with stroking them :D I'm planing on stroking a 400 with a 440 crank kit from 40source.com. For those that might not know, the 400 has a larger bore diameter than the 440. So...if you take the longer stroke crank of a 440, clearance the block for the crank, you end up with a base CID of 443 ( If my math is correct ) With a .040 over boar, you get a 452 CID. What makes this such a popular choice IMHO ( specially for A-Bodies ) is that it offers the torque of a 440 in the package of a 383, which will fit better in the smaller bay of the A-Body. It is also just a few pounds lighter that it's RB brethren..which also helps out at the track :D Give it a good strong bottom end, with about 10:1 CR, tack on a good set of aluminum heads and a 509 Purpleshaft cam, and you have a monster of a track motor that can still be driven on the street IMHO, this is the best all around big block option for A-Bodies.
Anybody know if the HEMI head conversion is still made? j |
i believe it is
schumacher sells all that stuff how much easier is it to put in/change plugs with a B block instead of an Rb block in an A-body? |
Originally Posted by chlngr1970
(Post 54781)
I'll chime in with stroking them :D I'm planing on stroking a 400 with a 440 crank kit from 40source.com. For those that might not know, the 400 has a larger bore diameter than the 440. So...if you take the longer stroke crank of a 440, clearance the block for the crank, you end up with a base CID of 443 ( If my math is correct ) With a .040 over boar, you get a 452 CID. What makes this such a popular choice IMHO ( specially for A-Bodies ) is that it offers the torque of a 440 in the package of a 383, which will fit better in the smaller bay of the A-Body. It is also just a few pounds lighter that it's RB brethren..which also helps out at the track :D Give it a good strong bottom end, with about 10:1 CR, tack on a good set of aluminum heads and a 509 Purpleshaft cam, and you have a monster of a track motor that can still be driven on the street IMHO, this is the best all around big block option for A-Bodies.
Anybody know if the HEMI head conversion is still made? j Exactly what I have two of in my garage... Both are excellent motors... One just has a new noise down deep in the block but not like a rod.. Hopefully only a wrist-pin..... The other is going back in the Barracuda for the Winter series of racing here in the SE...... |
Can someone please explain the differences between the 383/400 BB motors and the 413/440 RB motors (besides the displacement). I know that they are all big block motors. Does the RB said for "Rasied Deck" or soemthing else? Is this why there are some intakes that will only fit the "RB" motors and some that only fit the "BB" motors?
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rb is raised block the rb is roughly 1" taller than the 383/350/400. so the intake on a rb is a bit wider, the intake and distributor shaft length is different between the 2.
heads will fit each other fine. below is some measurement but as you can see the low deck isnt in the chart. sorry. Engine Measurements Engine Width Length Height Weight Chrysler 273-360 361-440 426 Hemi 24" 29 1/2" 29" 29" 30" 32" 27" 29" 32" 550 lbs. 670 lbs. 690 lbs. |
Big block question!
Hi all,
Hope this thread is still active. Any way here is my delema. The 440 in my car (Jensen Interceptor III 440,727,Dana 60 LSD) is very tired and wasn't looked after by the PO's :( , so I was thinking of rebuilding, but the quotes I've gotton here in OZ for just a standard rebuild were very expensive :(, I could buy a high performance turn key crate engine from the US and get it shipped, with a few more dollars spend on duties:). (i'm also planing on having the Trans and Diff rebuilt too, but need to deside what motor route to go b4 getting then done so I spec the right) My current combo @ the dyno is only putting down 127.6 rwhp ( it nearly didn't recover from that run :eek: ) so as you can see trying to move a 2.5 ton car its a slug... my wife Truimph Dolomite Sprint (2litre 4cyl, only mod is twin webers and headers) dynos @ 155 rwhp and she whips my butt at the trafic lights:o So should I just get a HP 440, or HP 500ci, or go for a HP 426 hemi. What are the pros and cons of doing this? What will be my best bang for my buck? Anyone know of a good place with a web site that I can view them? I'm not fussed a bout matching number etc as this car is for driving, I subscribe to the philophy of a classic needs to be driven. Plus I'll still have the original motor and maybe get it rebuild in the future. Hoping you can help Cheers |
Every thread is active my brother from another mother from down under. (sorry, it's real early here).
There are some really good books out there about rebuilding BB/RB motors. I posted up two in the Resources section I believe. As for what to do wiht the motor, you can't go wrong with a stroker kit from 440source.com. |
thnx
thnx Tim,
And congratz on getting hitched ( just incase I don't post closer to the big day ) cheers Mark |
ok i got a question..... got a 69 383 wondering which rods i should go with seeing as which i damaged half of mine beating the "piss"tons out of my block. not goin crazy with the build 450-470hp all im looking for. What are my options as far as 383-400-440 rods are they even possible to fit em? id like some stock ones because after what i did to em with that sledge all i ended up doin is nick up the rod journals. in other words who can i ninja some rods off of lol
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also another question i bought some 383 mounts and i was puzzled that our computer at work showed them to be the same.... how can that be???? the mounting needs to be reversed correct? any ideas would be of great help
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I'm partial to the 440's out of C body's and out of pick ups, 74-79. It doesn't help that's pretty much all I like driving too :D
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Originally Posted by mostang
(Post 67012)
ok i got a question..... got a 69 383 wondering which rods i should go with seeing as which i damaged half of mine beating the "piss"tons out of my block. not goin crazy with the build 450-470hp all im looking for. What are my options as far as 383-400-440 rods are they even possible to fit em? id like some stock ones because after what i did to em with that sledge all i ended up doin is nick up the rod journals. in other words who can i ninja some rods off of lol
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so i could use 440 rods with my 383 crank? or must i change out my crank as well? i dont have a ton to spend.... im boring my 40 over and the rebuild kit with pistons is 659 and thats eating most of my budget. but then i still gotta get rods, cam, intake, headers. reason for intake and headers is that i recieved the engine with only one manifold and a 2bbl intake
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I think 78D200 may have misspoken. Putting a longer rod in your motor does not change your stroke. What it will change however, is it will put your piston stroke higher in the bore at TDC and BDC requiring a piston with a lower compression height to keep from hitting the head. The benefit would be that the pistons would now be lighter reducing the weight of your rotating assembly and allowing you to rev faster.
Also I believe the rod journals from B and RB motors are the same at 2.375 but the mains are different sizes. So 440 rods would fit your 383 crank. |
sweet so my 8.4 to 1 engine should be fine with the longer rods?
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Depends on how far in the hole the pistons rest now, vs the difference in rod length. Best way to check is to measure how far down in the cylinder the piston is at TDC, the measure the difference in rod length. If rod length difference is less than depth of the piston in the hole, you should be good. If not, either shave the piston to compensate, or get a different set of pistons.
j |
Originally Posted by Interseptor
(Post 66919)
Hi all,
Hope this thread is still active. Any way here is my delema. The 440 in my car (Jensen Interceptor III 440,727,Dana 60 LSD) is very tired and wasn't looked after by the PO's :( , so I was thinking of rebuilding, but the quotes I've gotton here in OZ for just a standard rebuild were very expensive :(, I could buy a high performance turn key crate engine from the US and get it shipped, with a few more dollars spend on duties:). (i'm also planing on having the Trans and Diff rebuilt too, but need to deside what motor route to go b4 getting then done so I spec the right) My current combo @ the dyno is only putting down 127.6 rwhp ( it nearly didn't recover from that run :eek: ) so as you can see trying to move a 2.5 ton car its a slug... my wife Truimph Dolomite Sprint (2litre 4cyl, only mod is twin webers and headers) dynos @ 155 rwhp and she whips my butt at the trafic lights:o So should I just get a HP 440, or HP 500ci, or go for a HP 426 hemi. What are the pros and cons of doing this? What will be my best bang for my buck? Anyone know of a good place with a web site that I can view them? I'm not fussed a bout matching number etc as this car is for driving, I subscribe to the philosophy of a classic needs to be driven. Plus I'll still have the original motor and maybe get it rebuild in the future. Hoping you can help Cheers I would stick with the 440 for your application and fit. Yours is a smog motor with low compression. SO a rebuild and piston replacement would be a start.. What is your budget ? You could maybe get a stroker kit and have it shipped. If you want a complete assembled engine Try Hughes engines.. |
Hey Mostang, did you remove the ring ridge b 4 you removed the piss-tons? Or were they rusted? Any way I'm still torn between a 400 stroked to 451, or a 440 bored .030 over. Sounds like in comparably built motors the 451 low deck runs way better than the .030 over 440. Although the displacements are about the same. The 451 would have .020 bigger bore. Where does all this extra power and torque come from? Is it the lighter piss-ton? Or the rigidity of the 400 block? I have a 440 with rebuilt 906 heads and RPM intake port matched to the heads. So I would need a low block intake in addition to the machining of crank and piss-ton domes. Will probably just do the 440 bottom end for now, then build a 451 later. See which one propels the Road Runner down the 1/4 mile faster. Going to run 11 to 1 compression, as I live in Denver and the air is thinner to start with.
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Sorry I was late to this thread but 440 Source has a good read called "Everything you ever wanted to know about blocks".
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm |
Originally Posted by bremereric
(Post 80640)
Sorry I was late to this thread but 440 Source has a good read called "Everything you ever wanted to know about blocks".
http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm |
I never even considered the strength of the main bearing supports. Guess the old 77 440 block should work well. Thats what Tony @ Mopower Masters was saying. Thanks
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Great article on the block lower end strength. Next question would be whether to use the 400 rods or 440 rods with a 3.75 stroke. The 440 rods would result in a shorter compression height on the pistons. So less weight? Any thoughts or theories/experience on this? What results in a better rod length to stroke ratio? Any help would be appreciated. Going to build a 440 first, then a 400 stroker later. Still looking 4 a 400 block.
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Interseptor, nice car, I've always liked them.
What's the largest expense in getting your 440 rebuilt? Would getting the stuff shipped to a US address, then all parts combined and re-shipped directly to you help in any way? If it would, I'll be more than glad to let stuff be shipped here, and once we have a large accumulation, forward to you to help if it will. |
with a 400 block using the 440 rod & crank is the way to go this maintains the rod ratio of the 440 & uses the lighter piston with the higher wrist pin position this also eliminates 7 lbs of mass from the rotating assy so it will rev faster . You can do a similar upgrade to the 440 using a 4.25 stroke crank & a 7.1" con rod creating 512 CI & reducing rotating mass at the same time .
Jensens are very cool BTW |
Originally Posted by BuckNeccid
(Post 81693)
Interseptor, nice car, I've always liked them.
What's the largest expense in getting your 440 rebuilt? Would getting the stuff shipped to a US address, then all parts combined and re-shipped directly to you help in any way? If it would, I'll be more than glad to let stuff be shipped here, and once we have a large accumulation, forward to you to help if it will. here's a few places in oz that can help . binstead engineering / kevin kent race engines . keven & his son jason are the mopar guru's in australia . they build awesome engins & gearboxes there phone number is (07)5531 2914 & there on the gold coast . aussie diffs there also on the gold coast they build great diffs & carry mopar stuff in stock from borg warners - 8 3/4 & dana's as well as the 9" inch's that most people use . the convertor shop in brisbane do some of the best convertors in the country geoff will rework your stocker or has slant , hemi 6 , sb & big block on the shelf or will build you a wild one to suit whatever you want (07)33908824 . in sydney there's south west automatics they do great gearboxs & love mopars there online i don't have there number . as for small parts elko in melbourne seem quite good . . in south oz out law speed shop cary a little bit . buy the just parts magazine as well for others . hope that helps any aussies or kiwi's out there . |
Originally Posted by deadkelly
(Post 102998)
biggest expense building mopar engines over here is getting shafted by all the middle men , then shipping costs from us to oz . other down side is theres not many people or shops that know all the little tricks & nobody has torque plates . then nobody stocks big block mopar gear on the shelves .
here's a few places in oz that can help . binstead engineering / kevin kent race engines . keven & his son jason are the mopar guru's in australia . they build awesome engins & gearboxes there phone number is (07)5531 2914 & there on the gold coast . aussie diffs there also on the gold coast they build great diffs & carry mopar stuff in stock from borg warners - 8 3/4 & dana's as well as the 9" inch's that most people use . the convertor shop in brisbane do some of the best convertors in the country geoff will rework your stocker or has slant , hemi 6 , sb & big block on the shelf or will build you a wild one to suit whatever you want (07)33908824 . in sydney there's south west automatics they do great gearboxs & love mopars there online i don't have there number . as for small parts elko in melbourne seem quite good . . in south oz out law speed shop cary a little bit . buy the just parts magazine as well for others . hope that helps any aussies or kiwi's out there . |
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