newto440

Does anyone have a easy to read (simple) starting circuit schematic that I could use. I have nothing.

bremereric

Try this.

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/Dual_Ballast_5pin.pdf

newto440

That circuit is the best one that I have seen so far. Now if I can find a starting circuit. Does the dodge reguire a relay to control the starter? When I got this set up all I got is the engine. Now that it is the truck (1968 F150) things are different. I need some advice. Thanks.

bremereric

Yeapers. The ignition switch turns on the starter relay to engage the starter as the same time it is turning on the start ignition circuit.

newto440

So I have to install a starting relay somewhere. There isn't a relay inside (on top of) the starter motor i.e. chevrolets?

440roadrunner

Give more details about what you are doing. Is this in a custom rod, IE why can't you wire it like the factory?

If it's in a rod, we need to know what you are using for an ignition switch. This is the KEY (pun intended) to your wiring strategy, because the power to the ignition both in "run" and "start" is controlled by a Mopar type ignition switch. If you are using an aftermarket / custom switch, this changes things.

It would also be VERY helpful to know if

1--this is an automatic transmission, IE you need a neutral safety switch

2--this is a stick, and whether or not you plan to utilize a clutch safety switch.

You can go in several directions depending on the answers

newto440

The truck is just a driver. Nothing special. The tranny is an automatic 727 same vintage. The ignition switch is ford. I do not have any dodge wiring so I have to make the engine part up. The alternator is a GM one wire. It all seems straight forward but I just don't have a handle on the starter. It is the relay question, I probably should just put one in. Using the original wiring, there isn't any for this. All the parts and pieces came in a number of boxes.

This truck has been stored for 17 years, no rust, never had any. So I think it is a good project. To keep me busy.

440roadrunner

I forgot to ask you what you have for an ignition system----you have points, Mopar with 4 terminal ballast, or 2 terminal ballast, or aftermarket, like MSD/ Mallory, etc?

In the circuit Bremeric posted, notices the contact on the switch labled st which goes to the coil+ side of the ballast. This is what Mopar calls "ign2" and is what supplies voltage to ignition in start. YOU DO NOT HAVE that contact in your Ford switch. The "start" contact is separate and ONLY feeds the starter solenoid (Ford) or starter relay (Mopars)


OK, the trick is you have to have

1--Good hot 12V to the ign. system during start

2--Of course power to the ign system during run. THE TRICK is that many / most ignition switches "kill" the "run" voltage during "start." This means you need some way of getting power to the ignition system during cranking.

Because you do NOT have a Mopar IGN switch, now you have to add something to take the place of the Mopar ignition start circuit, known as "ign2"

There are several ways to do this.

1---One is to buy the newer Jeep style starter relay which has an additional contact and looks like this:

In this case you run a wire from the fuel pump/ ballast terminal to the "ignition run" buss

"Battery" serves as a junction and runs to the battery, and is one contact of the relay

"Starter solenoid" is the other contact of the relay, and runs to the starter small (solenoid) terminal

"Ground" is run down to the center terminal of the neutral safety switch on your Torqueflite

"ignition" is really mis--named. It goes to the "start" contact on your ignition switch



2---Another way is to use the older Mopar starter relay, which looks like the one below:

You'll note it does not have the "ballast" terminal.

In this case you wire it up the same as above, only now you need something to take the place of the extra "ballast" terminal. There's a couple of ways to do THAT

A--You can run this starter relay and add a Bosch relay in, triggered by the same two coil terminals of this relay, (ground and start, the two "push on" terminals). Then run one of the Bosch relay contacts to battery power, and run the other contact to the ignition buss

B--You can run this relay, and use a diode to supply the start voltage to the ignition system. Go down to Radio Shack and buy the largest amperage diode they carry. As you wire up the start wire to the relay, branch that off and go through the diode to the ignition "run" buss. Diodes have a band on one end, and you want the band on the end hooked to the ignition buss


If I have not completely lost you, you have several loads all fed off the ignition buss. Depending on fans, pumps, that is, just how big this load IS, you need to consider using a relay to relieve stress on the ign switch.

newto440

That was quite a detailed list of directions, thank you. Now: the Dist is points, the coil is a Mallory, the ballast is a two post. Will this work: 1. I put in a relay, battery to relay, relay to starter. 2. I run a wire from the ignition (start) to the relay, relay to the "S" starter. The run on the ign to the ballast to the coil etc. This is all hanging on the ign switch having a start and run positions. This I don't know, I have not been under the dash. I would like print out your rely

440roadrunner

OK, 68 Ford. Some caveats:

First, do some research and make absolutely sure you have the correct ballast resistor(s) for that coil. I have one of the old rectangular Mallory coils from the 60s and they require the factory resistor PLUS the Mallory resistor in series.

Second, are you using part/ all of the Ford harness? If so, you need to find out "what you have." I BELIEVE but am not certain that Ford used a resistor wire to the coil, that is, instead of a ceramic ballast, the resistance was in a special wire, in the harness.

That vehicle would most certainly have start, run, accessory on the original switch.

The diagram below might help. If you use the late Jeep/ Mopar starter relay with the extra terminal, here is how you hook it all up:


(I've forgotten exactly what that relay comes off of, I'm thinking late 80's Jeep stuff. The point is that it needs that extra contact for ignition power in the start position)

Run your main big battery cable to the relay stud, and another ring--to ring cable down to the starter (large) terminal. The second (smaller) terminal is the solenoid which goes up to the relay as drawn. Refer to the drawing I posted above earlier.

The one marked "battery feed" from the stud to the switch should be no 10 or so, because this also supplies accessories switched by the ignition switch.

newto440

Thank you very much for your time and effort. I have printed all of our correspondence and I will be using it. When I get the "Fordge" runnig I will let you know the outcome. I do not want to assemble the front end until I know that it will run. It is so much easier to get at the engine with out a core support or radiator. Radiator, that is the next purchase, I have been looking at a variety of radiators on Ebay. I need the outlet (1 3/4") on the lower right, so it will be a little change for that year Ford. Thanks agains. Just to let you know, it was -12 yesterday AM and it is 0 degrees today, it should begin to warm up this month. See ya, Rich.

440roadrunner

Good luck and post back. I've always liked those old Fords. When I was in San Diego in the '70's there was a shop that "got into" converting a few old Fords to Mopar. They were all the way from '48 all the way up into the 60's, and they did several, from at least one 426 hemi to several B/RB conversions.

Jonathan Heiniemi

Hey, I was wondering if your still on these forums. And if you could help me with some simple wiring diagram. Basically I’m trying to figure out how to add a voltage regulator into your diagram. I have a 78 dodge 440 that’s been transformed from a rv to a mutant vehicle. The guy before me wired it to points, I have bought the Jeep Cherokee starter, and I’m having some difficulty figuring out the charging system, I’m not super savvy about car charging systems. Thanks.