Trying to start a 383 after 9 years
 

Here is the issue I am having today:

I tried starting the car today with the timing set at 0 degrees and moved it slowly while my friend tried starting the car. The carb started flooding through the top of the carb on both sides. I then took off the carb and adjusted the floats to the correct lvls..they were way off. I then tried to start the car again but had the same problem, fuel flooded out the top of the carb through the carb vents. I did get spark because I had did have flames come out the carb this time but then it flooded again.

I am stuck at this point and not sure what to do. Is this a carb issue, a timing issue or maybe the fuel lines could have funk in them. I'm really at a loss now and need some help.



Some info on the car: 1964 Chrysler 300 convertible, 383, carter afb 4758s carb 500 cfm, electronic ignition with orange box.

Here is a list of things I just finished doing to the engine before turning the key:
valve job, new head gaskets, rebuilt carter afb carb, replaced accelerator pump, replaced fuel filter, replaced intake and exhaust gaskets, dropped the fuel tank and for now running a fuel line into a gas can(there is a ton of junk in the gas tank), blew out the fuel line, put oil in the cylinders while heads were off and hand cranked engine, oil and filter change, drained anti freeze and replace, replaced distributor with an electronic distributor with an orange box from mopar perf.

You need to fix the carb... Something is wrong with the float or float needle.. You could also check the fuel pressure, that is not likely to be a problem...

While the carb should have copper floats it in you never know if they are good sit them in a can of gas or gunswash thinners overnight. If they slosh around or feel heavy they need replacing.

You said you rebuilt the carb but did you put the small round gaskets under the float seats? there is also clips that go on the float needles that connect to the floats if you put the wrong ones on they can grab the sides of the float bowl.

The float drop should be 3/4 of an inch from the gasket, and sitting they should be 5/16 from the gasket at closed. Yes you need to measure with the gasket in place even though it is odd. The float drop is specified on the diagram as to where you measure same with the float in closed.

I've done way to many of these carbs over the years so I know a few things about them.

The timing isn't that hard to set initially actually. If you have the original distributor still you can even see the chiseled mark at the bottom where the distributor was set at factory to the engine. Angle the electronic one about where the points one was and it should fire up enough to check with timing light unless someone changed camshaft and put the distributor gear in wrong which is common.

The timing of the distributor gear is actually stated in the original manuals for the cars so any bigblock engine should be set the same way for any year. Check it if you wish but the rotor should point in a specific direction that I can't remember at the moment and the plug wires installed on the cap in the firing order writen on the intake. check to make sure you installed the wires correctly when a person is tired mistakes can happen such as pluging them in the reverse order.

I did have the round gaskets under the float seats already. I did not put clips on the float needles and only see 1 type of clip left. When I put these clips on the float needles they dont connect them to the floats like you mentioned. They look like a u clip with a bulge in the center to go around the float needle. They dont seem to do anything though. They dont connect anything or touch anything besides the needle.

As for the float level and drop I had set them to what the instructions said which were 7/16 float level and 15/16 float drop.

So what is the correct float levels? and whats up with those clips?

Todays crappy gas is for fuel injected carbs and will wreck havic on carbs. Your needle valves are probably glued open. Tear the carb apart and rebuild it.

http://www.carburetion.com/Carter4.htm

3/4 float drop 5/16 float height on float 100-94. 7/16 and 15/16 is for floats with the indent on the end.

In picture for 31-512 you can see needle with clip on the end. That is the clip you should have in kit to go over the float arm.

Still the setting you had wouldn't have caused the carb to flood. Test your floats to make sure they dont stick in the small metal plate inside the carb. If you removed the plate at one point and put them in backwards they will stick on the float arm. Use a good light as you lower the top of carb onto the body you will see if the small plates are backwards and catching.

This is the rebuild kit I used http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1477/media/images

So there are no clips like that. Would those clips make it flood like it did?

I checked on the plate. I did not remove it and they are not sticking.

oh boy! That is a pretty lousy kit. It's for the remake Elderbrock carbs not the original AFB. Still some of it is useful. It would do a basic job not much more.

If the floats are not sticking then the only thing left I can think of is the floats leaking. Sit the floats in a can of gas overnight and then shake them around a bit to see if they have stuff in them. The needles should only go into the seats one way ie the pointed end going in to the seats and the end where a clip should be sitting out.

Unless you put an electric fuel pump onto the car there shouldn't be a flooding condition.

Next time you need a carb kit get one from Piston Ring/Auto value. The kit is a good one has the correct clips and gaskets in it.

"AFTER" you get the carb fixed, the timing is wrong, and usually "flames out the carb" means the distributor is 1/2 turn, or so called "180 degrees off"

DO NOT set timing at TDC. Set the timing, rather, at "where you want" the timing to actually BE

To do that, pull the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the engine until you JUST START to feel compression.

Then turn your attention to the timing marks, and using a wrench on the crank bolt, bring the timing marks up to say, 10BTC

Now install the distributor, determine the no1 plug hole, and on a BB, "retard" the dist body which is counterclockwise.

Now slowly rotate the dist. body "advanced" (clockwise) until the points just open--using a test lamp, or if you have breakerless, until the reluctor tip is about centered on the pickup coil.

Plug in the wires and start it up.

Well It started right up tonight and ran for about 10 seconds untill it flooded a ton again and had puddles on both sides of the intake manifold. I really dont know what else to do. I adjusted the floats and triple checked them. I checked everything I submerged the floats in water and they are still in there to double check to make sure there not taking in gas. Help!!

water is thicker than gas and is useless for testing the floats. I have to ask where is the gas itself coming out of the carb onto the intake? Usually when these carbs flood the fuel will come out of the vent on the drivers side only and dribble on that side. You did say it floods fuel on both sides which is making me wonder if it really is flooding after all.

I would also like some pictures of the carb with the top of it off at this point. I have the strangest idea that it will tell me what the problem is.

needle/ seats/ floats are an incredibly simple device, all in the world that you must do is apply a small amount of CARE and logic.

It is VERY important to make sure there is no DIRT in the fuel. This is easy to see right in the carb bowl. If you pull the top off the carb, try not to disturb the carb body too much (if removed keep it level, etc) and examine the fuel in the bowl.

Double, triple, in your case re re re---check the needle /seats against the old ones

gaskets? Same length? are they "other than" metal tipped?

Carefully examine the floats for leakage

Check fuel pump pressure. High pump pressure will "blow" fuel right past the needles.

Be absolutely sure that not only that you are correctly checking the float level, but that you actually have the correct spec for your carb.

Last, there might be some possibility that due to something being stripped, overtightened, or some other malady, the top casting of the carb might have a crack or other leak.

I did take pictures last night but didnt get a chance to post. I will post the pics tonight. I have it apart again and will review it all again this weekend.

Pics of carb. first is on the car right after it flooded and you can see all the gas puddled on both sides. the others are it opened up.

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/sjzdx/library/Carb

Ah so this is an elderbrock carb not an original afb.

bad floats would be unlikely then as the carb isn't old enough. Good idea to check in gas just to be sure.

I have no idea what application that carb is for either.

I doubt you have a fuel pump/vacuum test guage. If you do or can buy/rent one check the fuel pump. Some parts places now rent out specialty tools such as a fuel pump guage. Install and test should not exceet 7 pounds pressure.

The fuel evidence coming out of the carb is majorly excessive. If it was flooding normally most of the fuel would be in the middle where vent is. The drivers side plunger is tougher to come out of unless it is under pressure of some sort. Original carbs the vent is on the driver side. Later applications were on passenger, this has neither of the those vents.

The carb has evidence of old tarnished fuel not quite cleaned out but seems clean otherwise.

your right about that

is there a return line on this fuel system ?
is he using the correct fuel filter if it has a return?

Also look for a spec called "float drop." There should be an ear on the float pivot that limits DOWNWARD travel of the float. This is also important as it keeps the needles from dropping so far that they either fall out, or bind and won't slide back up.

Don't those have clips in the ends of the needles to tie them to the floats?

There's been some malfesance in that carb, but frankly, the photos don't show anything out of the ordinary that I can see.

The aluminum tag on the front looks like a Carter Comp Series carb, I ran a 750 cfm one way yonder back in the day. Is it possible you have the floats installed upside down? They'll mount either way but upside down it won't contact the needle & seat right and will let the needle fall open and flood the bejeezus out of the carb; your needle & seat are basically wide open. With the top of the carburetor upside down, the top of the float should be parallel with the edge of the carb. I just put a kit in my Edelbrock after I cleaned out the crud left from the 8 month old gas it had in it...

I took a bunch more pictures:

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/sjzdx/library/Carb

This carb is an a Carter AFB 4758s 500 CFM. It is an aftermarket carb and has no application.

I dont have a fuel pump test gauge but can check my parts store tomorrow about renting one.

The fuel filter on the car is: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...er=830815_0_0_

There is one picture that is a downward view of the carb. On the outside of each metering rod plate and screw holding the plate are openings. This is where the fuel pours out of.

The floats appear to be installed correctly. The tabs which limit float drop are contacting the side of the seats.

One thing I would try is to hook up the fuel line, leave the top of the carb upside down (in a pan, etc) and run your pump. Use two people if you can, and gently apply finger pressure if necessary to close the needles. See if there is a leak coming out the casting, and if the needles are actually capable of sealing.

Okay I retract the statement about it being the eldebrock casting. Competition performance. AFB carb and from the looks a totally different float setup as they sit way higher than the afb. So the 7/16 and 15/16 measurements would be correct. I wonder what that was made for still. Boat maybe?

Just out of curiosity how did you end up with this carb, which has been bead blasted at one point in the not to distant past?

The center vents beside the metering rods go to the float bowl inside and are above the floats and inlet needles. From what I can see in the pictures your work at cleaning the carb was adequate enough and for all purposes should have been more than good enough.

Check the floats in gas overnight you might have to put something heavy to hold them under the fluid. I have a small metal screen container that I use to test floats but you might get by with a small pair of vise grips GENTLY holding the float under. If they have gas in them when you pull them out and shake them replace floats.

Rent the tester or buy one and test the pump. Lets see what there is to see and eliminate any problems. A fuel pump whose internal relief valve is stuck closed is almost unheard of. It is possible though so a quick test will tell that.

I tested the floats in gas and they do not take in fuel. I rented the fuel pressure tester from auto zone but could not get a reading at all. I used a "T" fitting to hook it up and got zero pressure when i started the car just before it flooded after about 10 seconds. I have a hunch the tester is bad or the right fittings were not included in the kit. Gonna hit autozone one night this week to verify this.

I am dropping off the fuel tank today though to get it cleaned inside and out. Its been out of the car all this time and its terrible inside. I pressure washed the inside of it multiple times and it still has alot of junk stuck to the inside walls.

I did blow out the fuel lines from the pump back before I started all this. I am thinking of doing that one more time and seeing what comes out now to see if there is sediment inside the lines aswell. Could sediment get into the pump and cause it to increase the pressure? it is a mechanical fuel pump. I would think it would be the opposite.

And to answer your question: The carb was on the car when I bought it in 93 and ran fine until i parked it around 2003-04. The previous owner gave me the originial carb and intake and a few other extra parts when I bought the car. I still have it and dug it out this weekend but its in rough shape. It would take a rebuild and lots of cleaning to get it to work. Its a 2 barrel stromberg wss.

The fuel pump tester plugs in directly. A t fitting wouldn't show a proper reading unless one of the t ends was plugged off with a bolt and clamps.

It's a good sign to know the floats are not leaking.

I realized today I was over complicating all this. You all were telling me what it was. I went back and opened up the carb. The floats were properly adjusted but the needles were staying open a tiny bit. After some creative bending of the floats you can see the results below.

Thank you guys who offered your input. It was greatly appreciated.

lol nice gratz.