RENZ-71

Hi guys ,

I just bought a 1971 Dart with a 340 in it .The previous owner put a holley 650 dual pumper and a edelbrock Torker intake manifold in it .I have been reading that alot of guys prefer the edelbrock performer to the torker ? As for the carb is the Holley 650 a good choice and does it go well with the torker ?Are edelbrock carbs beter ? I do have the spare money to buy both a new carb and intake . What do you suggest i do ? Keep in mind that i want a mild built engine nothing to crazy !

Thanks .

slade

hollys are junk vacum secondarys that only dumb chevy guys use lmao... i like eddy carbs mechanical secondarys or a good demon. 600-650 is all youll need. as for intake u should do a little research see what matches your heads the best. do u know of u have "X" or "J" heads? the performer is a good intake for the cost.

RENZ-71

Thanks for the info !

I am not quite familiar with mopar parts and engines yet , so i don't know if my heads are j or x ....i am a real noob to all of this ! lol . What about edelbrock carbs ? Are there any good reliable ones ?

Coronet 500

If your car has a manual transmission and/or has 3.23+ gears the Holley DP, which does not have vacuum secondaries, with the torker is a very good combination on a 340ci engine.

RENZ-71

Unfortunatly i have a auto trans ....does this mean thats the combo i have now is not appropriate?

RENZ-71

2.76 gear ratio

Coronet 500

Your carb has mechanical secondaries the Edelbrocks do not, they have an air valve which like vacuum secondaries open based on engine demand. This type of system lends itself better to an automatic transmission if tuned properly as it will flow more air as RPM increases just like your transmission will shift at a higher RPM when at WOT.

If you have a DP WOT has all 4 barrels 100% open regardless of RPM and bogging may be a problem unless your getting that RPM higher by a higher numerical rear axle gear or the transmission gear selection by you.

Just saw you gear number posted. Do you experience any bogging, like you have to feather the accelerator pedal?

RENZ-71

It was brought to my attention thats my car seems to have difficulty accelarating and y really have to stomp the pedal in order to get it to really kick in ...even then it seems like its lacking power ....this i why i was asking question about carb and intake , maybe its all related to the intake and carb the previous owner installed ?

TVLynn

2.76 gear? IT is not an original 340 car.. They would have had a 3.21/3.23 the factory did that for a reason. The intake is only part of the problem. The torquer is more for High RPM. The 650 DP will work, it will hurt milage

RENZ-71

Would i be able to replace my 2.76 with 3/21-3/23 gears ?

Coronet 500

Your description, if "kicking in" means shifting down could be when it hits the lower gear the engine is overwhelmed by the fully open carb.

RENZ-71

There for your theory of the air valve carb would make alot of sense ...

Coronet 500

Here is a good article on the subject, see the chart at the end.

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/1306_v...r/viewall.html

moe7404

"air valve carb " i would trim the weights on the air valve to match the low RPM torque. so it would not bog at low RPM. on carters that had the air valve and edelbrocks. all so set the float level to 5/16, no more. the O.E.M. setting is 7/32

Archer

renz -

From the bottom up...

The Old style Eddy Torker manifold is good for high RPM flow. "Newer" models, like the Victor with curved runners are better flowing, but the straight runners on the Torker aren't slouches either. (I use a Torker on my 440, but it used to be more of a race car.)

With a 2.73 gear ratio and I'll assume a stock or near stock torque converter in the 727, you will loose some low end torque and probably never run the rpms high enough to get full use of any single plane (single plenum) manifold.

You'd be much better served by a good dual plane manifold from Edelbrock, Holley etc. Better low end torque and mid rpm HP.

A lot of opinions on the carbs. The old rule of thumb was that an eddy (Carter) for the street and a Holley (DP) for the track. Not sure I buy into that, as I kinda like the Holley double pumpers for the street as well, but I kinda grew up with them. They will give you the fastest launch when you punch it. The Holley vac secondaries carbs actually do work quite well, but you still need the right size.

Unless you know you have an aftermarket cam, above stock levels, the 600 DP or vac secondary would by my choice.

The thing to remember that you really want a total package with a specific purpose. That means carb, intake, cam, exhaust, tranny (converter) and rear ratio built for either street, street/highway or race. Compromises can work, but it's always a compromise.

Right now if you're just looking at the carb and intake, I'd go with a good dual plane and a 600 cfm carb.

Archer

slade

my eddy is mechanical secondarys. then at wot all barrels are open. u can swap your rear gears for any gear u want. 3:21 are a nice balanced gear ull feel more down low but your no screaming at 60 mph. my truck has 3:91 but its also a 5 speed.

Coronet 500

Excellent advice from Archer, here is an Edelbrock manual, if you look at page 4 you will see the air valve function. Don't be confused by some who think it is a mechanical secondary, it is not. The secondaries throttle blades do open when the mechanical linkage moves them but little air flow begins until the Air Valve opens.

When you look at comparisons of the two you should find that an AVS carb is similar to a vacuum secondary and can be grouped together during carb selection and not to be confused with a true mechanical secondary double pumper carb like you have now.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...ers_manual.pdf

If you are thinking about a manifold change pay attention to the manufacturers RPM range and if it matches your intended useage and driving style. Have a look at the Street Demon, we have one on a 318 and like it very much, sort of a Thermoquad spin off like the Edelbrock is of the old Carter AFB/AVS carbs.

Drag Pak

RENZ-71

There are many good workable suggestions here, but
I believe you can make your current combination work quite well.

I would take it to a chassis dyno and have it tuned as per Mopar recommendations(ie 35 degrees total mechanical advance at 2000 rpm, 52 degrees vacuum advance at cruise vacuum etc.).

Then have the 650 DP jetted, the floats adjusted, the accellerator pumps and nozzles adjusted, and I am sure you will be very happy.

josehf34

I apologize by my off topic but why on this article they say that a mechanical secondaries carburetor should be used in a car in which low fuel economy isn't a problem and the car weight should be lower than 3500 pounds?

I bought a Carter AFB 625 (I think this has mechanical secondaries) because I want a good fuel economy and my car is heavier than 3500 pounds (Plymouth Fury 1974 about 4600 pounds including fuel and driver)

Do I made a bad purchase?

moe7404

my experience is that the air valve mostly effects of air flow the secondary plates. the MPG is effected mostly by hard you push the throttle peddle.

ZombiePopper

Wow! Really...

Well,
using YOUR line of thinking here,
BUT,
When I see someone open their hood
and there's an Edel-crock carb on their motor,
I know I'm dealing with someone who doesn't know squat about carbs "LMAO".

Also, a few corrections;
1) a Holley DP aka double pumper is NOT a "vaccum secondary" carb, hence the name, double pumper, its a mechanical secondary carb, BIG difference,
2) furthermore, the Demon carb (Barry grant) that you're toting "you like"- IS A HOLLEY! (vacum secondaries or mechanical secondaries available)
3) also, Edel-Crock carbs are NOT mechanical secondaries (not completely anyway).

but I guess these facts supports my theory above lol.

Back to the topic;
The Torker intake is an old design intake BUT its a good one, not to be confused with the Torker II (2) which are awful intakes IMO.
BUT the torker's effective rpm range is around 2000-6000 or there abouts, if memory serves correctly.
The Edelbrock performer intake is basically,
nothing more than an aluminum 4bbl stock replacement intake,
(Now, the Performer RPM intake is a different story, good intake as well)

Your biggest issue is the mismatch of parts and I'd suspect your carb is out of tune/to much for your motor, I'd suggest verifying what your motor is for certain (318, 340 or 360).
One thing I'd suggest is tuning the carb or possibly closing the seconds. then address your gearing, that'll make a HUGE difference.
Then possibly selecting a mild cam kit, (maybe headers, torque converter, shift kit etc)
After that she should run really well.

ZombiePopper

I wouldn't say you made a "bad purchase" Carter's are darn good carbs, and yes, if its an AFB, it has mech. second.'s, basically, its a two part mechanical and vaccum second.

After all edelbrock's are basically, nothing more than a carter carb with an Edelbrock sticker on them (some minor differences) but I'd take a Carter over an Eddy any day of the week.

It's typically a "general rule";

"Poor fuel economy" because when you push the pedal the seconds. can open even if the fuel isn't needed, under normal/casual driving.
where as vac. seconds. only open when the engine needs the extra fuel, and in many cases, the second.'s rarely open.

As far as vehicle weight, its more important to match your drivetrain set-up for the carb (gears, TC, cam, etc) than total weight IMO, BUT,
The general thinking is a heavier car takes more energy (pedal) to get moving, and its easy for a mech. second. carb to overwhelm or flood the motor and a "bog" to develop.
A 750cfm vac. second. carb may only flow 450cfm in an engine at WOT because that's what the engines rpm/vacuum is requesting.
Put a 650cfm mech. second. carb on the same motor at WOT and its going to flow 650cfm whether the motor wants/needs it, if its only asking for 450cfm, your flowing 200cfm more than the motor wants/can use which usually leads to wasted fuel, bog, poor perf, fouled plugs and a gas smell in the vehicle.
Now factor in you pedaling the snot out of heavy vehicle with a mech second carb to get it moving, and its just dumping fuel out the exhaust.
BUT, this can just as easily (and does) happen in a light vehicle as well but its more common on heavier vehicles.
General thought process;
Lighter=less pedal
Heavier=more pedal to do the same as above.
But as I said its a "general rule" not the gospel or written in stone, its dependent on MANY factors. (Or at least this is how I've always understood it)
Just be certain to match your engine, trans, rear.

Good news is though, ALL carbs can be tuned/adjusted as to when the seconds open.

Zoomer59

If your going to go with a Holley the 1850 style is the way to go 600cfm with vacum secondaries. if you have a big lumpy lump cam installed then your need to adjust your power valves and and secondaries accordingly.Invest in a good vacum gauge if you dont have one.
The edlebrock 600cfm is a good choice also,it takes a little more knowledge and patience to tune one properly and a few more $$$.
The torker intake is a good choice and is right up there with old LD340 DP intakes or Performer intakes.
Get rid of that double pumper unless you have a good stall convertor or a 4 speed.
best investment is to buy a book(s) on tuning Holley carbs and Edelbrock/Carter carbs before you start.

TVLynn

Without changing everything I would just put a 3.55 gear set in it and see how it runs.. Also make sure the trans kickdown linkage is working. I would bet !!!! it is not hooked up properly any non OEM carb usually needs a linkage adapter with an auto trans

m880

Thats the stupidest bull **** i have ever read,Edelbrocks are vacum secondary only and holleys can be had either way and mopar,ford and chevy guys all use hollys,edelbrock carbs are street carbs. I use one on my m880 4x4,other than that hollys for performance,,i know old post but that b.s needs to be shot down that a 12 yr old wrote

Iowan

“Thats the stupidest bull **** i have ever read,Edelbrocks are vacum secondary only and holleys can be had either way and mopar,ford and chevy guys all use hollys,edelbrock carbs are street carbs. I use one on my m880 4x4,other than that hollys for performance,,i know old post but that b.s needs to be shot down that a 12 yr old wrote”



Perhaps your the one that doesn’t know chit.
Edelbrock carbs are Carter carbs that came stock on mopars, Edelbrock carbs ( pay attention here ) are mechanical secondary carbs but have a vacuum door over the secondarys. Maybe instead of showing of your Ignorance you would bother to educate yourself on the facts before blithering all over forums acting like a ten year old.👍