Hey Mopar people, I was looking through everything trying to find the best place to get the info and help I need and not one place could help me as a blank face so I decided to join you guys and seek out your knowledge and wisdom. I am a bow tie man(1968 Chevelle/1969 Camaro) gone mopar because I wanted to try something new and unique and I looked at all the cars out there and noticed how little I see the M showing its face. I bought myself a very high quality 1970 Charger not too long ago, she is a driver and runs(not the way I want her to so that is why I am here). I am what you could call a baller on a budget.

I will be restoring this car slowly(not too slow hopefully) and would love to upgrade her to make her a better ride. I am not retarded to the mechanical side of cars but body I could use help in but that is a different story. What I was wondering is some upgrades that are worth while or a must that can be done for cheaper side. She has a 440 out of a motor home or a truck (I looked up the block code and it showed a 1974 440 block but not what from and would love some input on how to make it better) and a 3 speed auto. What I have planned is she will be a weekend cruiser(or whatever day I feel I want to show up in style at work) so I want her to be fun but friendly to drive. I am planning on doing a restomod putting new age comforts in her but leaving the tackiness aside, meaning she will look "mostly" original. I am planning on buying either the RS500 or SS700 from the Kiesler company even though they have a bad rap from the RS I heard they are doing better and I like they do make the full kit for a 5spd with overdrive no cutting so it is more of a simple plug and play (I know passion is good or maybe better but they don't sell a kit that I saw so it is a lot more for the auto to man transfer through them and I have to buy all the parts and don't want to be the idiot who forgets to buy one thing and make the swap delayed for another 4 weeks ordering what I forgot) and I will be making my own center console using a later model center console as a start and putting all my new age tech in it concealed some how so it doesn't take away from it. Also I will be going to the Holley Terminator EFI when it comes out after I get the OD trans in.

My question to you guys is I know in the Chevy world and I went to the junkyard and salvaged parts from 80's and even 90's models cars to improve my car (like the 90's Camaro disk brake swap) and was wonder what I can do with my poor little Charger. What are some upgrades you guys know of that I can transfer to my car to improve her? Can I still rack and pinion off another car? Disk Brakes? Control Arms? I know I can go to summit, yearone, etc and buy all these kits for it but that is thousands of dollars when I am not making a race car but just a driver, I drive my girl to shows, she is not a trailer queen. I just want to know your guy's inputs on it. If you fellas and gals can get back to me it would be so helpful. Thank you all for your time.

Very Respectfully,

Your US Sailor.

P.S. I will post some pics of my baby up soon.

 

Wow you asking for a lot.

Okay first this is not a Chevy meaning the front torsion bar suspension is far superior to anything you have ever driven. It will calmly take a corner at twice the speed your used to.

The late 60s early 70s cars were built to actually handle 200 oval track corners. Going around a cloverleaf at 100 mph will not bother the car but you will get a speeding ticket. Newer double wishbone suspensions and so forth start sliding around at 60 mph so no advantage to changing that at all.

On these however is the lower control arm bushing that after 40+ years tends to wear out. They are available quite easily but are a royal pain to replace. You need a press to split the shaft out, using a small dremel tool carbide bit to remove some of the tin from the cup in the arm and then a punch to push the side in removes the arm part of the bushing without damaging the cast steel part. The pin that bolts to the k frame the tin part of the bushing can be hammer off by putting the pin on the flat end of a vise or an anvil and hitting it all around to expand the metal. It will then slide off. Sand the bushing surfaces, lubricate the metal surfaces with oil to make the assembly easier and press the lower control arm, bushing, and shaft back into place.

Common things to check and replace on front end are the ball joints, which btw screw in and out with a special socket on the upper control arms. Rest are available as remove and replace.

Steering boxes. there is a company in the states that rebuilds these. The stock steering is plenty good in good condition and putting in a rack and pinion steering is a ton of work as there really is not much room under the car without customizing something.

Rear suspension - remove and replace the rear leaf springs and shackles all of which are available new. Sandblast and paint the shock mount rear end plates gloss black. Install new hydralic shocks and not gas shocks. The gas shocks do not seem to last long on these cars. Air shocks are a definite no no for the same reason as the gas.

The rearend is probably an 8 3/4 chrysler which is plenty strong for most applications. Yours may even have a sure grip in it(dont call it a posi here people get really upset) which is rebuildable. replace the seals on the rear end and it will last a long time. Make sure the vent on the brake tee has it's cap and moves freely. The drum brakes if they are not 11 x 2 1/2 upgrade them to such. Used on cars and trucks up to late 80's.

The car might have disc brakes already or drum. You can change out to 11 in disc from a later b body car but they are not so easy to find as most came with 10's. Will it improve braking? Not really no. For big block drums applications 11 x2 were installed on the front and 11 x3 on bigblock hp packages. They stop really well. Actually too well sometimes.

The engine however is a sore point. The block is okay so just clean it out and replace bearings. The heads depends on what you have. If you have the 452 (casting number) have 0.030 taken off. If someone put on the 915 heads to increase compression just have them rebuilt at a good machine shop, valve guides, seats checked and if cracked replaced with good quality hardened seats.

Pistons can be what you want actually I would suggest a target of 9.2-9.7 compression ratio to run regular fuel. Try to keep the bore as close to original as possible. No need to go overboard on these it's already big enough from factory. Crankshaft stock you probably have the cast crankshaft you can upgrade this to a forged steel crankshaft. Neither really gives problems but the cast crankshaft is slightly weaker.

Camshaft - go to a dodge dealer and ask for the mopar performance catalog. You can order many of the parts you want through dodge directly. I would suggest going with the purple cam that is described as original magnum camshaft for street use. Going with anything more aggressive probably wont work with your efi plans too well.

These engines originally came with high flow manifolds being reproduced and available through year one. They provide excellent breathing of the engine. Headers will not help on this engine for street uses unless they are the expensive thick walled headers. The thin walled ones create a resonance that reduces the flow pattern in a closed mufflered system to the effective opening of 1 3/4. go with stock Hemi mufflers as the engine itself will drive you nuts with the louder other brand aftermarket mufflers.

For changing to manual the original system for the 4 speed manual is actually really good. I'm not sure why people want to upgrade to a 5 or 6 speed but it has been done just search for it.

The original 26in radiator is plenty good for almost all applications. If you want you can go 3 rows in this radiator without customizing it. The only thing I like to point out to people is to make sure the radiator hose fittings are moved so they are at opposite ends of the radiator. Some came with the upper hose almost to the center.

Tires and rims - Stock you can go with 14 x6 in the front and 15 x 7 in the rear. Depending on the look you want there is steel rims, police steel, five spoke, and rallyeye rims. Rallyeye rims are correct for more later vehicles but you can use them if you wish.

The rear wheelhouse will hold tires and rims pretty without major modifications.

For new tin go to autometaldirect as they have quality stamped pieces for almost all of the car.

Just a note you may want to look at the period correct 4 speed consoles for the car which had the optional tachometer on it. You do not need to cut up the dash for any reason. Radios can be nicely hidden under the passenger seat. Oil guage isn't nessary nor is temperature. If you wish to install an oil guage go with the electronic version and not the plastic oil line. Mopar engines produces a fair amount of heat. Mount these under the dash over the console there already is some bolt holes that can be used to mount stuff there.

Wiring - The bulkhead connector usually has plenty of spaces to add extra wiring through it there is no need to drill holes in the firewall for anything. The original harness is sometimes butchered up to begin with. Use solder and heat shrink to connect wires as crimp ons tend to fall apart.

I know your a chevy guy but honestly the original black taped harness with hockey tape on the ends looks much nicers than the plastic ribbed wrap.

Brake booster - There is two types of stock brake booster single and dual. The single was used in most applications. The dual was used in special applications where the engine vacuum was lower than normal. Non stock cams for example.

I should warn you originally the 440 magnum engines put out 400 or so horsepower but far more tongue than the 454/455 chevys. If you upgrade the horsepower even more than that combined with the torque may shock you. I'm not sure you will understand what I mean by that till you drive one. As a first time engine try to keep it tame you can always prepare a second more aggresive engine as they are quite easy to change.

I will note one thing. The drivers side engine mount stock came with these little straps bolted between the engine bolt on the kframe and the motor mount bolt on the block called torque straps. These were a very good idea as the engines had a tendancy to tear the motor mount apart. I replace these with a cut lenght of chain as I haven't found a good source for replacements. There is some but they seem more for looks than anything else. You can change to a later b body k frame type mount if you wish that did not suffer from the problem.

 

Thank you for the quick response. That is a lot of good information and I do understand that Mopar built there car more to a racing spec then Chevy did so the engines are stronger and the items used were beefier. My Chevelle was a 383 stroked engine at around 500hp/500tq with a t-56 attached behind her and that is the reason why I want to do the 5 speed, because she was a cruiser too and even with that power she still drove like a dream on the highway and did actually got good gas mileage, almost comparable with my 2006 GTO.

I am currently out at sea so I cannot go over my car and inspect everything but I do believe it is a all drum car and the tires aren't the rally's but they are similar to the American Racing AR61 Outlaw style or that is the correct rim(trying to remember from memory) and I would like to say they are 15's. The car also has the rally dash I believe, which it already has a Tach in dash, Speedo, oil, volt, temp, so the main thing for the center console is looks and functionality. I am building one that can hold all the switches and a stereo unit (I am thinking a double din nav one but I might change my mind) but be able to hide these items once the car parked so no one can tell that it is different by first glance. Plus who doesn't want a cupholder or two? Ha ha. I mean it is just an idea and the original 4spd for the charger is well above 300 in okay condition and a repo is around the 900 area I think.

The engine is a RB and I am not sure if the heads are original or if they have been upgraded. The person I bought the car from bought it how it sat and he wasn't really a car guy. He thought he would restore it but didn't know what he was getting into so he wasn't much of a help.

But I think you missed my original question. I know there is a lot of stuff I should be replaced (I knew to change over shocks and most bushing as with any car that is 40+) but what I was trying to figure out is what kind of upgrades could I steal from later model donor cares from wreck yards to adapt to the Charger. I think you mentioned the brakes and I am currently looking at that swap to the 11.75" front disk from a later 73-'74 E-body or '73- '76 disc-equipped A-body. I like the idea of doing this swap for the front and the price difference between wilwood and this is a prime example I would say, due to the junkyard swap being around 250-350 all said and done while the wilwood is around 900-1400 all said and done. So that is what I was sort of asking, what upgrades can I do to this car using junkyard (sway bars, electrical, interior wise, etc) donor cars as the actual upgrade? I hope that helps a little more.

 

I also realize from prior resto's there is stuff you can't skimp on, like the wiring harness's so that is why I have already bought all brand new harness's from yearone because I know I can't trust anyone's wiring before me, that is just a nightmare of wires that go no where and splices that just make no sense. Ha ha. I just want to know where I can save a buck or two for the things I can't save money on for.

 

Front and rear sway bars are pretty much limited to that b body. Your car should have a front sway bar already. Rear are harder to find and again limited to that b body so roadrunners, satellites, coronets, super bees, and chargers 68-70. The rear spring plates and axle spacing limits the interchangeability.

Aside from the rear drums I mentioned before there is not much that is available from later cars that helps if any at all. Seats original bucket seats recovered are as good or better than later ones. Steering wheel options well the original woody steering wheel is nice but if your original one isnt cracked keep it. Steering column you need the one from that year car body style without shifter.

Altenator no advantage going with anything newer same with voltage regulator. One upgrade is the smaller starter used on the mid to late 80s cars and trucks.

Windshield wiper arms ehh I suppose if you really wanted to go with the newer ones and could find some that were the right length you could go with the squirters on the arm itself. keep original bottle (the plastic bottle is available new).

Not sure if your car has hideway headlights or not. THe motor for them is servicable if a bit tricky. Used on cars with hideaway headlights up to 75.

Power windows... the original system serviced and working is a good system. Rear window tracks have a problem with the plastic roller bushing disintigrating even on non power windows. They also tend to bend the swing arms so a bit of visual checking and straightening go a long way.

I rarely ever use a radio when I drive simply because the engine is music to my ears.

One thing about Chrysler products. When Walter P Chrysler left General Motors to start his own company he did so because he wanted a higher level of engineering and quality. While the old man is long dead his original legacy of a high level of engineering on the cars has carried through to even today. There isn't much to upgrade as they were built good at the time.

 

Yeah, I've been looking around and I haven't seen many people saying good upgrades that are a definite must other then the normal parts that wear and tear and have cheap new age tech into like the bushing and shocks you mentioned. The car has fold away headlights (I believe all did for this year but I might be wrong) with the electric motor rather then vacuum. I need to look at it because it sticks sometimes trying to come up but not always, I figure it just needs to be oiled. I have original steering wheel, it has a aftermarket stereo in but I want to take it out and replace that part with the correct stereo and bezel only for the look because I hate cars that have been mutilated with modern stereos. The upgrades I like to do keep the integrity of the car but also allow for some of the things you want out of a car. Like I plan on taking the cruise control from another car and transferring it to my car because I do like to do road trips and cruise control is a huge plus. That is why I am doing the EFI holley bolt on that looks like a carb and an OD trans that isn't going to make me rip out my floorboards. Oh the car was a 318 Charger 500 I believe. I don't really know if that makes a difference on any of the components or options it once had or it might secretly have without me knowing.

 

318 would be a charger se. Charger 500 were bigblock.

The cruise control used on cars through the 70s and into 80s bolts in quite well with brackets into cars with carbs. Not sure how that will work with efi if at all.

In my experience Overdrive transmissions and EFI do NOT save anyone money on fuel. Most of the time they actuall cost people more money in fuel. The technology for the advantage of fuel injection is not yet there even on new cars, although it's getting closer. Overdrives seem to be set at 2:1 ration which is too much. THe early 80s 4 speed with the 1.5:1 was actually a better choice as it turned the 3:55 gearset in the rear to a more fuel effiecent 2:70 on the trucks.

 

The Terminator EFI from Holley uses the OEM throttle cable to control the carb so I don't see why it wouldn't work using the proper stuff. As for the transmission, I am not sure. I know this current transmission is killing the car, high RPM on the highway (I think it is a 727 but I could be wrong). I just know I want it to be a manual, get better then 50 miles to the tank(That is about its current mpg), and be a better cruiser over all. The EFI auto adjusts its self so it is better over time, a carb can be dialed in but depending on where you go be the mountains for sea level, the mixture always changes for the area and the EFI can adjust to it automatically unlike a carb.

Also I am looking for a no cutting solution to the transmission, and I don't think there is a non cutting transmission out there other then the Passion A833 with OD built in or the Keisler solutions. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong though.

 

Gor for it. A buddy of mine in my Mopar club has a '68 Charger with a 528 crate Hemi and he put an efi system on it with the Keisler 5 speed and absolutely loves it. Cranks on the first turn of the key, throttle response is off the chart and with a 3.54 Dana 60 while it won't compare to a Prius it's not bad for a 700 horse Hemi. You will have to cut the floor for an 833 btw, unless it originally was a manual trans car.

There's a lot of parts interchangeable, a lot of it's trial and error. Things I've done myself include swapped a set of bucket seats from an '86 Omni GLH into my '70 Cuda, they fit the Cuda seat tracks like they were made for them and so much more comfortable there's no comparison. They'll likewise fit a Charger. I do know too that the steering chuck is interchangeable with many different models up into the 80's, maybe later. I used one from an '86 Dodge full size van when I converted my 69 Road Runner from manual to power steering. Just make sure you have the right pitman arm for the application. That also has the added benefit of tightening up the loosey-goosey power steering, my biggest complaint of muscle era Mopars. The later models have different valving. If yours has the Saginaw pump you can also swap it out for a later model. If you really luck out you can find a police ps pump with the built in cooler. If you want to add tilt and cruise you can use a tilt column from a Cordoba; it has the integral cruise control/turn signal lever. I have one from a '78 squirrelled away for my next build. 68-70 B- body hood hinges are interchangeable up to the early 90's full size trucks, as are the outside door handles. However at some point in the 80's, I'm not sure exactly what year, they changed the type of spring. Hinge will still work but the spring is different. I'd suggest subscribing to Mopar Action magazine, their main tech guy Rick Ehrenberg does "quality of life" restomods frequently, how to install ABS on a classic Mopar, efi, od transmissions, how to improve on the factory engineered suspension without spending your life savings etc...

Gas shocks are perfectly fine, I've run them on every car I've ever owned without problem. I've also never had any problems out of the guides on the quarter windows, between 2 '68 Chargers and 2 69 Road Runner hardtops.

Not true about the SE and 500. I've seen plenty of big block SE's, hell my parents owned a '69 SE with a 383, but I have actually never seen a big block '70 500, not to say they didn't build them but every one I've ever seen has been a 318.

 

I'm sorry to disagree with you but the SE's are the 318 cars while the only 500's I have seen are 440's, which in case your wondering are quite a few.

 

I'm pretty sure I know the car I grew up with...

For 1970 the 440 was an R/T only engine in the Charger. In '69 the 440 was standard equipment in the Charger R/T, the Charger 500 and the Charger Daytona. The only engine option for those three models in 1969 was the Hemi. The 500 in 1969 was a very limited edition car, less made than even the Daytonas, 392 vs 503. They were supposed to make 500 in order for them to be NASCAR legal, hence the name; Chrysler got under the radar on the 500's by counting some of the cars twice. They had the same flush rear glass as the Daytona, with a flush mounted front grille borrowed from the '68 Coronet. In '70 the 500 was only a trim package, no longer a performance option, the 440 was unavailable for 1970 Chargers except in the R/T.


http://1970chargerregistry.com/Production/500_8cyl.html

 

damn my eyes must be playing tricks on me then with the P23U0 chargers then. Note the fender tags all had the 500 package codes. So unless your gonna tell me they were 500 r/t which I don't think exist ill stick with them being 500.

Dammit now you got me wondering. Don and Donna(its a couple) wont come by with their pair until May for the seasonal checkup at the earliest. 318 se with a 383 in it and the 440 500 which I took to be original.

 

A very close friend of mine had a 1970 Charger 500 and it was an original 318 car.

 

That is some awesome info Moparod!

I thought I had read that info correct about my car. I am not sure a 100% since I only sightly looked at the build info. The car was an auto on the column with a 318 and I do believe it was a bench but I might be wrong there. I mean it is no where near what it was originally with I got her. I bought the car with buckets in it (low rise, not with head rest) and it had the 440 in it with the auto on the floor B&M shift kit installed. Also it was originally a brown color, I want to say that awful baby sh*t brown, ha ha.

That is the type of stuff I am looking for, I am not trying to make a freaking beast of this car or a race car or a numbers matching perfect rotisserie resto. I mean anything I can do myself at home with some time and effort is what I am looking for. I know I can dump 50,000 dollars into this car and make it a dream machine but I am not looking for that. I want to make her drive similar to a "newer" car, have some of the nice things of a new car, and in the end just have a fun car I can jump on the gas with from time to time but it is ultimately going to be a cruiser for hot summer nights or just when I want to attention when I go to the beach on the weekend without being a hassle to take out or making me drop 60 dollars to fill her up for a day of driving.

I think I will start subscribing to morpar action magazine, those helpful tips in those things are always a good thing in my books. So how do I know if I have a Signaw pump and what would be a good car to steal one from? Like a year and model so I can be on the look out with a list in my pocket of items to starting scavenging for the next time I find myself at a junkyard? Does the Cordoba's column look similar to the Chargers or will I have to play with it? I thought all Cordoba's were auto so I would have to patch the area for the column shift(I still need to do it to my current one anyways but C/C sounds so much better this none). And should I keep the rear leaf spring or should I try to change it out some how with something else(even if I can't steal it off another car and have to buy it new)? Any ideas for my car people? I should be able to post some pics of her up not this week but the first week of April.

 

Are you talking about the dark metallic brown? A friend of mine had an AAR Cuda painted that color. I actually think it's nice color. I can't swear but I think that '70 was the first year for a bench in a Charger.

Yours being a 70 it should have the Saginaw. The older Chrysler pump- I think Federal Mogul made them- has a round body with a round neck, and the pressure line is on the front of the pump behind the pulley, I think they switched over in '68 or '69. Earlier Saginaws had a round body with an oval neck, later the entire pump was kind of teardrop shaped. Pretty much any year but the later the better, late 70's up until I think '93 should all fit the same. I'd look for a 80's Diplomat or Gran Fury, even a 5th Avenue, there are still a bunch of them in the junkyards. You'll need to swap the small block bracket for your big block bracket. Only stumper might be if yours has a pressed on pulley or bolt on. I have a Saginaw setup from a 1971 440 with a bolt on pulley, I'm pretty sure all the later model ones were pressed on. May not matter, I used a pump from a 5th Avenue on my Road Runner and I didn't change the pulley.

The Cordobas came with consoles too, not just the column shifter. Mine came from a console car. Might not be very easy to find one but they're out there. In fact, there's a guy on this forum with a Cordoba with a console, he was going to use as a demolition derby car, maybe you can work out something with him if you can find his post. Of course there are probably other cars that would work as well.

Definitely keep the leaf springs. You may want to replace them, after 40 plus years of use I'm sure they're pretty worn out, but originals are available and easy to swap.

 

The original pumps were both saginaw and federal. They look almost identical the difference being inside and the actual outside diameter of the pump. It would be a round tube with a metal cap on the 68 69. They did have an hp bracket which was really good for them.

The 70 may have the flat type, or not, typical of the 70s and 80s. The pulleys were pressed on. However they were not mounted the same as the late 60's pumps and were lower down with totally different brackets.

The late 60's round bodied pumps and brackets, at the least the hp, were the best big block pumps as they didn't move ever. The newer style tend to shift from time to time. The only problem with them is the return hoses currently made require you to put a spring inside to prevent collapse. The earlier non hp brackets originally had a rubber spacer in them. The idea was to cushion the pump. The rubber spacer broke apart and the pump came loose. People usually weld these together at the point where the spacer was.

The pump oring on the outside where it comes into contact with the case ages after years and is tricky to find a correct sized one.

 

So one of the difference is the outside but what is the difference with how it will make it drive?

 

Well I tried posting this last night. Don't know why it didn't show up. Sorry if 2 of the same replies end up on here.

But on my 68 coronet R/T, its running a 440 4 speed and dana 3.54. Its a perfect combination if you ask me. It's not so low that your making the motor scream trying to cruise down the highway. And its not high enough to take too much bite out of the bottom end (I could spin around doing donuts all day long if I wanted to and leave a block of rubber in a straight line). At 65 mph in 4th gear I'm turning about 2500 rpm. Jacilynn is correct in saying that the 440 mag is pumping out a lot more than you'd ever expect. It's an insanely powerful and very well designed engine. So if your wanting a nice cruiser with plenty of pickup I would recommend just doing a mild build. The 440 in mine as far as I was told when I bought it is just a stock 440 hp out of a 68 police car. It has a 750 holley double pumper, weiand intake, and headers. And it will blow the doors off of just about anything in town. With the right cam, mild porting on the heads (if they are the right cast like 906) and some 10:1 pistons your probably easily looking at 500 hp and an insane amount of torque.

As far as the suspension goes. The stock torsion bar set up handles pretty nice. It would probably be far more money and work than its worth. But if you want a couple of places to look that specialize in mopar suspension you can check out Hotchkis or XV Motorsports, although you may have to drop some big bucks to do anything worth while. I would recommend trying out the old stuff before doing any upgrades it might be a lot better than you'd expect. An a833 4 speed will be a lot cheaper and easier to convert to and is a pretty bulletproof set up, I couldn't be happier with it. Only thing I can really complain about on the 4 speed aspect of my car is when I bought it, it had a pistol grip shifter (not original wasn't offered for 68) and it feels like a mile between gears. But I'm going to put an original 68 correct Inland shifter back in it and that should get it right where I want it to be.

I had to go up to Ohio to buy the car. I drove it back. 1000 mile drive for me. I kept it at a steady 65 mph and was getting 10 mpg all the way back. Stopped every 100 miles for gas and had to put 10 gallons in it everytime. Even put less than that in it a couple times. Thats pretty good for a 440. I haven't tried to see what I get around town though, I can't keep my foot out of it to even try to get a consistent gas mileage count.

Also brakes... mine has the big drums all the way around, and they are manual. Before I ever bought the car I just knew they were gonna suck and that was gonna be the first thing I'd upgrade. Well to put it in perspective, my 73 challenger has manual discs on the front and drums in back. The coronet has WAY better brakes than the challenger by far. Manual brakes take a bit to get used to but after a bit you won't notice it. Now I'm not gonna sit and try to tell you that upgrading the brakes isn't going to do much good because it probably will be a lot nicer to have power big disc brakes all the way around. Just saying you might try out the old stuff and see what its like before deciding to upgrade because it might be better than you'd expect. You never know you may save yourself some big bucks, a lot of headache, and be just as happy or happier with the car in the end.

Hope this helps you out in making some decisions.

 

Thank you for the reply Rcknrolfender79 and don't worry if there is a double post. I mean I am looking for nice upgrades and I don't mind paying the buck for the much need or "wanted" upgrades. Ha ha, I had just made a new post about eBay buying because when I looked there I saw that Hotchkis suspension components were at about half the price which I know I can save my little pennys and pay for maybe in pieces but is still slow is better than never.

I would like to see a sticky made for people who are new to mopar like me about the junkyard budget builds. I know I would love a 500 hp 500 tq engine and I know I can get some damn good mpg by doing the upgrades I have in mind even if they are a bit more expensive. I agree that the a833 is a great transmission and passion makes it with the OD so that is nice but the Kiesler makes it also with the hydraulic clutch is pretty nice even if it isn't OEM looking. I mean I want to do a MSD ignition which will never look OEM but I know it is a better choice (Btw, anyone have suggestion on which MSD to go with and control box? Etc?).

I am just looking to make my girl the best car she can be without dumping 10,000 in the suspension as if she is going to be on the track or going into the engine with the thought of this is a drag car. Dropping 2000 in the motor doesn't kill me, 2000 in supension doesn't kill me either. You know? Its when we are talking about a break upgrade that is 3000 on its own that kills me. I do most of my labor on my own so I don't worry about that so much except for specialty work like interior or body. I've rebuilt one engine when I was younger with my dad so I think with the right reading material and guide I could do it again (Maybe some friends and a few 12pcks might help too).

By the way man, you got some pretty little children in your family picture there.

 

Oh, and as for the MPG, Im looking to try to get more like the upper teen's and maybe if I am lucky low 20's. That is my hopes, ha ha. Here in California the speed limit says 65 but if you are going less then 75 then you are wrong most of the times. That is the typical speed I am driving and I think that might be another reason why my MPG is like kicking a horse after the Kentucky Derby. I mean there has been times were my friends and I all take our cars and go to our hometown areas around So Cal and even in Vegas, my Chevelle use to do that trip often and on the way to Vegas she was getting around 23 when we calculated it with the same horses I am trying to get out of this beast and that was on a tuned carb, I bet with the EFI Holley is making I might even be able to match that or surpass it. You get where I am coming from?

 

My roadrunner is running an MSD 7AL-2 and it seems to work pretty well. It's also a 440 4 speed dana 3.54. the 6AL looks like a good set up as well.... the coronet still has the points. Yeah I want to upgrade that to electronic ignition. Points are just a hassle.

And yeah you gotta build your car for the conditions your going to be driving it in. It's going to be tough to hit high teens or low 20's for your mpg's with a 440. From the reading around I've done most built 440's get an average of 6 to 7 mpg lol. But if you do end up going that route, keep us posted on the mpg numbers you get. If you get anywhere near the high teens or low 20's I'd definitely consider doing the conversion to save all the gas money. As long as it didn't take any power away of course. I'd rather be having fun spending the money than not as much fun spending a little less lol. If you end up sticking with a carb I'd go with a 750 or 850. I was having issues with mine a week or so ago and put the 650 eddy from my challenger on it to see if it fixed the problem.. didn't fix the problem but I bet I lost 50 to 75 hp going down to the 650. I just bought the roadrunner a few weeks ago btw. It sat in storage for 13 years less than 100 miles on the engine since it was built. It has a 2x4 carter set up, the intake and exhaust are all port matched, has keith black 10:1 pistons, and a lunati 30306 cam Duration 285/295, Lift .507/.534. I'm pulling the carbs tomorrow to do an overhaul on both of them and going to retune them. But man for whatever reason the roadrunner doesn't have near the ***** the coronet has even though its the exact same set up. At first I thought it was because the coronet maybe geared lower. But after driving them both thoroughly.. I can tell they are geared the same. I'm really thinking the 2x4 set up is just way too much carb for it and is robbing power rather than giving it. I think a single 850 or 950 or a six pack setup would do this car a lot of good. As much work was put into the motor in this thing it should put the coronet to shame. But at the moment it has no chance in hell. IDK we'll see what happens after rebuilding the carbs.

And thanks btw. We'd like to see pictures of your car as well

 

I will probably make a post of my car being built once I start to build this charger, the problem is I just got a pretty big bill (7000) and that was my car money I had saved up. :[ But her pictures will be posted as soon as we pull back into port. (They are on my home comp and I signed up for this forum while we were out at sea due to boredom and me trying to plan out my build, I am a very logical person when it comes to money, time, and execution.)

As for you power problem, I would say it is the carb set up. I mean I had tried so many different set up with my chevys and it is always the carb or the manifold that can mess things up. I had a 850 on my chevelle and it ran pretty damn good, when I shoved a highrise manifold on her though, she was preforming as well as a five year old in a iron man competition. I always was taught the more air the better you are off but I was wrong, chances are with dual 4bbls might be just choking you out with too much fuel just as when I had the highrise I was running too lean and even dyno'd the highrise was a bigger waste then the normal eddy I had on it to begin with. If you want to keep the setup you could always adjust the size of the carbs and/or the jets in the carbs so it can flow more efficiently in WOT. Just a thought though.

 

Well glad you joined. There is a lot of knowledge floating around this forum. And majority of the time these guys can tell you exactly what you need to know.

And as far as keeping the 2x4 set up... eh.. it's cool to look and cool to say you've got but cool doesn't beat functionality. I'll probably go with a single 850 since it's been ported and a weiand intake like the one on the coronet. Or May see if I can find someone to trade a six pack set up for the 2x4 set up. Personally I'd rather have a six pack on it than the 2x4. Six pack will be closer to original equipment. The 440 was never offered with 2 4's.. that i know of. Correct me if If I'm wrong. The 413 wedge, maybe 426 wedge and the 426 hemi were though. Just like the pistol grip in my coronet, it's really cool, but cool doesn't beat functionality lol.

 

I don't know about the dual carb set up, maybe the Hemi but Im not going to put money on that. The Pistol Grip Shifter though was introduced in 1970 with my car's birthday, I know that one. Ha ha. They revised most of the car's interiors during 1970. I heard the 6pk is more of a cool factor too considering the cost of it but it is functional too and it was a option for the RT Charger in 1970.

I am right there with you on functional over cool. I like things to work right and how you want them, it is why I said I am going to make my car a restomod. It will retain what made the muscle car era what it is but I am going to add luxury's we have today and stuff introduced later on in the life. Over drive was one of the best things invented in my mind and lets face it, there is rarely a highway that goes 55 as they did when our cars were built. Adapting new tech into old cars is in my mind a piece of art. I admit I am a fan of people who take the new hemi's or LSX engine bays with new age interior. It is what I personally would love to see on a car lot. A car that is an exact replica of our cars on the outside with the comforts and reliable of a 2000 model car. Saying that though... My car isn't going to go that far, she will be new age but I can't disown all of that heritage. She will keep a mostly stock interior, a mostly stock looking engine bay, and a stock outer appearance, but will have some of the newer nicer things in life like a stereo that uses an iPod, a rear window defroster, over drive, EFI, better interior lighting, more then two speakers, a trunk that isn't bare but has panels and carpet, a minor sound system, CUP HOLDERS haha. You know what I mean man?

 

413, 413 wedge, 426 max wedge, 426 hemi all came with 2 x 4 at one point either inline or offset. The 440 did not come with 2 x 4 from factory although some of the factory racers did have 2 x 4. The carbs are 2 carter afbs. On 440 they do make a lot of horsepower. Then again so does adding max wedge headers.

A stock 440 magnum with a mild 3:23 rear end in a b body does about 16 mpg. A stock 440 maltess hp block does about 22 mpg. It just works out that way. The same engines with fuel injection will probably get about 15 mpg average, highway will be a little harder on fuel while the city will be better IF you keep the engine in the power band. If you added the proper exhaust and sensors for the Efi system then the gas mileage increases up to 21 mpg for either engine. IF the EFI system comes with a nice handy tablet that you can tweak out the pulse timing and so forth the mpg changes again. 23 for normal magnum and 25 for the maltese.

It's your call on what to go with. Maltese refers to the engines with high nickle content.

Just a note but by going with 2:76 gears in the rear your gas milage on the highway goes up a fair amount. Probably why most people call them highway gears.

 

Yup. I've actually wrote chrysler a couple of times saying that exact same thing. Of course it doesn't do any good and they would never take the advice of a nobody lol. To me it's obvious everyone is coming out with cars that try to favor the old stuff. I wrote them and asked why not just build the exact same cars. Like the challenger. Why not fire up the old presses and start producing the 70 challenger exactly like it was exterior wise just give it a modern engine, interior, some modern luxuries, and updated safety features. I would bet anything that they would sell more of those cars in the 1st year than they have sold of the new challenger in all the years since it was released combined. Everyone loves the look of old school muscle cars. Not everyone owns one though because of gas mileage dependability and not everyone has mechanical knowledge to be able to restore one or work on it when it breaks down. I've also wrote them saying that they need to bring the 2 dr coronet back and put the super bee name back where it belongs and get it off of that 4 door thing they call a charger. They respond with "sorry we are not currently accepting any suggestions from outside parties" lol.

It's obvious those cars are supposed to appeal to the hot rod crowd. Why not make a hot rod like it's supposed to be and surprise the crap out of the world. They'd make cheby and furd look like turds lol. The new challenger is cool, but its too tall or too fat something is just off about it. The new "charger" if you want to call it that.. is no charger idk wtf it is but whatever lol. Thats my opinion on that. And the worst of em all... The new Dart... wtf? they need to get the asians out of the design room and put real american bred hardcore mopar enthusiasts back in there and bring these cars back like they were meant to be.

 

I think everyone wants to see a classic rise from the phoenix but I don't think it will ever happen. Maybe it would delude the value of classic cars? I don't know, I think they should remake them as a special limited edition or something, I would love to see one as charity auction at Berrett Jackson or something, just to see it. You know?

It can always be a dream of ours, as for the Charger. I hated them at first but they have grown on me a little. I like the idea of having a fast freaking car which is a family car also, that way the girlfriend can't hate me for wanting speed when it comes with so many luxury items along with four door. Though if you look up the charger's history, it wasn't never meant to be the charger. What happened was it was designed and then right as they were releasing it, they slapped the Charger's name on them or something. It was suppose to be something else.

 

They should have named it the Dodge Storm or something.. it looks like a Storm lol. Dodge Storm FFC (fast family car) lol. It does drive me nuts to see the Super Bee named slapped on the side of a 4 door. That's just an insult to the guys that created the Super Bee in 68. Just like the new dart is an insult to the guys that created them back in the day. And your right it probably would hurt the value of old cars. But dammit we both know they could do a hell of a lot better designing a cool car than they are doing. But it would be very cool to see. But I do like having something that you don't see when you go out for a drive. It is cool to take the 73 challenger out for a drive and pull up next to a new challenger and the person in it rolls down the window and says... " I like yours better" lol I just say yeah me too lol.

Have you seen the new Dodge Demon concept? lol google that. Looks like a cross between a miata and a nissan 350z. Actually it literally looks like they took the rear end from the 350z and the front end from the miata and threw a dodge grill on it. It used to be a wicked muscle car. Now this thing is coming out to compete with rice burners da fuq is wrong with these people?

 

I think that is part of why I love classic muscle, I can show off without trying. Ha ha. There is a list of what I want to do in my head but I have no clue in what order. Or like what I like and other people think is tacky. Like I was thinking shaved door handles like my dad has on his 64 Goat. I mean some people say that is destroying a car and I think it is kind of cool myself. Also I want to add a passenger mirror and stuff like that.

But I agree, I rather have my old charger before I get a new one. That just my opinion. And they say that same stuff about the new charger, I forget what they say the rear looks like but the front looks like a Evo with a dodge grill people say which I can agree a little. But its interior is almost the level of a Mercedes so it isn't a bad "muscle cruiser" like the challenger(due to their weight you can't really say muscle car).

Sadly, that dodge demon looks like a poor mans viper to me, ha ha.

 

i am new here and do dont know how to post a forum topic i am looking to buy my first mopar and i am wondering if i would be geting in over my head with a project i am looking at. dart 1972 with a newly rebuilt 413 but the guy is a chevyguy selling it he said the engine is to far back and headers dont fit. me being a newbie would this be a cool project or would it be to hard.