Best Small Vehicle for a good sleeper?
 

Hey guys, I was talking to my brother a couple days ago and we were talking about building a sleeper together. He's a hardcore mopar fan like myself so we will get along well with this. We were talking about getting something like an old 63 Dart or Valiant. We are definitely wanting something old. What we had in mind is finding something that looks to be in really rough shape. Not really something with a lot of cancer just something with a lot of surface rust that we could possibly put something on to stop it from rusting any further but keep the rust there for looks. So something that just looks bad but in reality is a very solid vehicle. We were wanting something small. We talked about finding something with a 225 slant 6 and building it up, but man that would take a lot of money to get it anywhere near being called muscle. I think we are leaning towards dropping a built small block or mildly built 413 max wedge or 440 (if it will fit) in it. And then quieting it down as much as possible to keep it as close to stock sounding as it could possibly be. We are wanting something that people will scowl at, and the kids in the new mustangs and stuff will have no problem taking bets at the track lol. We want it to be the most deceiving car you've ever seen. Cars we've considered are of course the 63-66 dart and valiant. People are a bit more accustomed to seeing 67-74 darts and valiants with a lot of muscle and they are a bit bigger than we'd like. What else would be a good car for this? I know they aren't mopar but we've considered an old amc rambler as well but of course it would be crossbred with mopar when its done lol. What would be a fairly easy one to stuff a big block into? We want it to look like we took grandmas old junker gas saver right out of the barn she parked it in 20 years ago and started driving it again just how it was left... I'm talking rusty hub caps and all lol. We even talked about trying to make it look even more rusty in places with a rough spray paint and then painting over that with rust colored paint. Hell even try to figure out a way to make it sound like its running like crap lol. I would put a fog machine on the exhaust somehow to make it look like it smokes like hell if I didn't think we'd get pulled over for emissions every time we drove it lol. We think it would be a blast to build something like this and even more of a blast to blow everything off the road and have 'em going... wtf just happened?? lol

63 Dart would need major surgery to instal a Big Block.. Even a Small Block with headers is very tight

I figured it probably would. Any idea if 64-66 would be any different? I know some of them came with a 273 small block. I would think 63 is the same, as the body style is the same. Of course they came with manifolds rather than headers. Maybe a big block with manifolds? Any other suggestions of what a good candidate for this would be? We're aiming for small because we want light weight, mild motor, and fairly low gears (3.91 maybe 4.10). Would like to get it running around 11 seconds or better. Which if we gear it low enough and get a light enough vehicle it shouldn't be too hard of a number to hit. I have seen guys on youtube running a 225 slant 6 and getting down to 9 seconds or some even better. But I could only imagine how much money you'd have to throw into one to get it running like that. Anyone have any experience in that area? Although I gotta say I would rather be running a slant 6 in a sleeper like this. Then you could even pop the hood and no one would suspect it of being really wicked lol. But then again you'd have to have a really healthy cam and as soon as you started it people would know something was up I would think.

Don't know about engine fit but my son and I always wanted to do this with a.....

LANCER!

Hey I never thought of the Lancer thats another good one!

The engine compartment got bigger in the new 67 model SO unless you want to go to one of the aftermarket suspension setups

I have a 1964 AMC Classic 770 "Rambler" with the 287 v8. It has alot of room in the engine compartment for the "Small" style car you are looking for.

A 360 will fit alright

BUT...are going to COMPLETELY redo the suspension? And I mean weld in some aftermarket coil buckets and new springs, change the rear end and beef it up.

I thought about doing the same thing for a hot second, but decided my Duster was where my pocket would lose the money.

No one expects a Rambler to go super fast!!! Except the ppl who own them lol

Any questions about an early 60's Rambler just ask

How about a 64 polara 4 door post? Butt ugly car (no offense) get a paint job that looks faded and rusty but isn't. A 440 slips in nicely and the car is built to handle it.

As far as the rear end goes, most definitely would like to go with something like 3.91 or 4.10 that way I don't have to build the motor up too much to have the car pulling extremely hard and zippin through a 1/4 mile in no time. Suspension wise I would do what ever was needed to hold all the extra weight. I've been doing a bit of studying on a 225 slant 6 build. And its not as much money as I thought it would be to build a hefty slant motor. Would be cool to be able to pop the hood and still have people wondering how they just got their ass whooped lol.

A 4 door B body is bigger than what I would want. Want to save on as much weight as possible. I like the 2 door 64 polara's but I would have to draw the line at a 4 door lol.

I can see your point but, and I have to stress this, there is a point where you do need a certain amount of weight for the car to have traction.

We built a sleeper of sorts for a guy a few years ago. 65 Belvidere 2 door. Original paint polished up quite well and only needed 2 small touchups. The owner decided on a crate 591 hemi. It...has no traction even with the biggest tires we can put in the rear. The car itself doesnt really look like much. Plain old stock steel rims, although the back are custom built 15x10 they still look stock.

Sounds great and has a sure grip with a fresh clutch pack in it. Still no traction. The earlier b body cars are actually quite lightwieght. Not sure where that car is at the moment. The owner died in a horrible crash, not with the Belvidere, before we could put the 2 x 4 carter setup on it. The holley was giving problems, big surprise.

It's simply too much power for the car as the engine overcomes the body weight. Not even sure that tubbing and putting in a smaller width rearend would help at this point. Even at the raceway after a burnout it still smoked too much on the line and only managed a low 11. Note that was done with some slicks on it for the best possible traction. Don't ask me what the tires were I don't know as I wasn't there myself.

OTOH if you really wanted to shock someone and wanted to do a ton of custom work you could modify a mid 80s car. Turismo for example. Ive always wondered if it would be possible to customize the subframe of the car to make it a rear wheel drive with a good 318/340/360 in it.

My sleeper is a 86 5th ave.
shes not a rust bucket but has a few spots that i'm going to address soon.
she could use a bath and new paint and a top and i haven't put any rims on her yet, " a rolling restoration which in the spring should come together really nice". i have gotten my share of races from furd's and chebbys they all think there all that and a hand basket but at the next light they are tuning there radio. :yikes:

i read in here some where about vehicle weight.
i have seen it time and again some massive tork monster in a light vehicle which is so prone to "sit and spin" while the opponent is scooting away at the perfect weight to hp ratio.
My brother had a 73 dart swinger with a 440 you certainly couldn't smash it to the floor even with the 2.72 gear...but with a top speed of 75 in 1st you can imagine the shift to second. and most of the time the poor opponent is just getting his third shift too start winding up.
when my bros dart would shift into 2nd you have a moment of weightlessness then it's liker being shot out a cannon!she'll jump the opponent 2 car lengths and keep on pulling in a fury of roar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what fun!
and that dart was ratty looking, a earth quake at the intersection that won the race mostly by sound alone.

Yes I've thought about it being too light. As I said earlier I've been thinking about getting one with a 225 /6 to build up. From what I've read they can be built up very nicely without too much money. And in a 63-66 a body and without all the extra weight of a small block, it probably wouldn't have to be putting out a whole lot of power to get it scooting down the track at a nice time. I plan to do as much studying as possible on the issue before I just go for something. Now I know if I converted it to a little bit looser suspension it would grab traction a little easier that way it puts a lot of the massive pull from take off in the suspension rather than straight to the wheels. That way the car would be rolling before the suspension bottomed out and put all the torque in the wheels. I would like to do a /6 build because that just adds insult to injury lol. And it wouldn't look like anything under the hood if someone asked to see it, it can always be painted black and have a bit of grease and dirt smeared on it for the illusion of being an old, stock motor. I haven't done too much studying but, I would think a 300 hp /6 and low gears like 3.91, would be more than enough to scoot it down the track at lightning speeds, with the lightweight a body and the lightweight /6. I don't think that would be too radical to keep traction. But as i said I plan to do a bunch of studying on it before I buy anything. And btw I would be running a 4 speed. A fast car and an auto transmission (to me) are 2 things that don't belong together lol. I just love being able to feel all that power in the clutch. So a lot of traction control would come down to how well you could clutch it as well.

The reason I'm wanting light weight is because I don't want to have to dump too much money into the engine to get it down the track faster. I wasn't planning on putting a hardcore built 440 in it or nothing lol. I do want to have the ability to move the car without smoking the tires lol. I'm more leaning towards a /6.

lol Thats what I'm aiming for, to embarrass the ever living sh!t out of anyone that dares to race me lol. Now my Coronet R/T will chew up and spit out just about any of the chevy's or fords in town. But the problem is.... they know it will lol. If I take my challenger out for a drive I get guys trying to race me at just about every light, but I never do. Its pretty much just the stock matching 318 with a 4 barrel and headers thrown on. It's my cruiser. Also its running 3.23 gears so its meant for flying down the highway at 120 mph rather than zipping through a quarter. Now I race people on the highway all the time. Its got a lot of pickup on the highway because of how it is geared. Now when I'm driving the R/T... the way it sounds has bad ass big block written all over it. I've pulled up next to a couple of guys in mustangs and camaros and they do just like you said. Tune their radios or messing with their phone, anything but look at me lol. The only time I raced it was on the way back from Ohio right after I bought it. Had a guy in a chevy pickup get next to me on the highway and started pumping his gas signalling to race. I motioned a yes to him. Then smashed it to the floor and left him in the dust lol.

I always wated to build a Lebaron coupe from the early 90s

If you build something that is light and wants to spin. That make it that much more fun, let them initiate the race by then your already rolling. 30 mph smash the go pedal it spins and leaves them in the rubber smoke. yeah yeah thats what Im talking about.It will be like the RT only an ugly grocery getter but gets the job done when needed.. And a big boat ike a polara is a grandpa car. heavy, ugly and who even want to be seen in it.

Lol I like your thinking. The whole idea is to build something extremely fun. Although I'm not really aiming for ugly... Just something that looks like it was pulled straight out of the barn and put right on the street. And of course something that didn't come with any muscle back in the day. Something no one would ever expect to be bad ass. Yeah I couldn't stand to look out my front door and see a big ole boat 4 door setting there lol. Your right on the money.

Mid 70s Coronet looked like a grocery getter. esp. in gold paint. Cordobra, Diplomat,Volarie,New yorker, Dart/Valant all grocery getters And they all came with small blocks if ordered that way.

And whats amazing about these cars is there curb weight all mopars are uni body dezign my last chebby i owned was a 81 z-28 that car weighed in around 3900 where as my 5th weighs in around 3400
and with the 3.90 gear... and 46 re i retro-ed in, she is a very good combo.
If i was running a larger cu. i would change up the gear to match engine torque.
The car comes out the hole really fast no wheel spin at a full throttle run
she just moves out.

Im digging the slant 6 idea! Although I have never seen that style engine hopped up, it certainly would be cool to see a 250+h.p. /6.

I would totally be impressed knowing a /6 flew pass my car!

Anyways good luck and let us know what your new project will be

~Sean

I had a buddy of mine put a 360 into a Chrysler conquest. serious sleeper!
Also, another friend of mine put a 318 into a little D-50 dodge pickup. the engine fit like it was made for it. And it came with a 4.10 from the factory.

Look up built slant 6 on youtube. there are a few that will blow big blocks out of the water with no trouble at all. I remember one in particular that was in an old 30's model coupe running 8 seconds in a 1/4.

That is pretty bad to the bone man! If you can do the slant 6, DO IT! Its lighter and just the idea kinda blows my mind lol

lots of kits for the slant six i've seen them supper charged and turbo
long stroke large torque.

The '64-66 Darts are easier to add a bigger engine into than the '63 Dart.

Some later options, Colt/Cricket, Aspen/Volare, Mirada/Cordoba, Challenger/Sapporo, or Arrow. Even AMC with Rambler American, Hornet, Concord, Spirit, Pacer, or Gremlin.

Forget the Gremlin I had one of those in the day. GremlinX 232 6cyl. the car was all over the road with just that engine. To light , and the wheel base is to short unless you like checking your tail lights from the drivers seat. The Aspen/Volarie Mirada/Cordoba all weigh about 3200 lbs The Recap (pacer spelled backwards) is just plain butt ugly unless you like fishbowls. The Mits Challenger was a pretty cool looking car so was the colt sedan. Not sure whether it was this site or the other one where a guy was building a hemi colt drag car it looked awsome with the tubs and slicks. Ill find it and let you know where it is. Bill

i thought about doing this to my slant 6

another good video