1969 Fury III 318 Intake Manifold
08-04-2014, 08:45 AM
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1969 Fury III 318 Intake Manifold
OK, to begin with, I'm no mechanic.
I can follow directions reasonably well, and I have a very basic understanding of cars.
My car is a 1969 Plymouth Fury III 318 Automatic.
It's my daily driver, I even just drove it to Daytona Beach and back a couple weeks ago without incident.
Last week, I started having sudden overheating, and as I suspected, my water pump was going.
Took it to a shop that fixed it before and learned it also needed to have intake manifold gasket replaced (leaking) and valve cover gaskets replaced (leaking), as well as a radiator flush.
As I didn't have the amount necessary for the repairs, I decided I'd have to do it myself.
Purchased all necessary parts, fluids, etc.
Got new water pump installed, and figured while I had it open that far, I'd go ahead and tackle the intake manifold then the valve covers.
When I removed the intake manifold, I noticed a single opening on each side on both the manifold and where it met the cylinder head that was incredibly obstructed with a very hard, dry deposit, like some kind of carbon buildup. There was such a small opening remaining that I felt the car couldn't possibly be running very well with that much obstruction.
I get very poor mileage (maybe 12 mpg around town), and performance is sluggish.
SEE YELLOW ARROWS BELOW
It wasn't oily like sludge, it was very hard and dry.
I took a small, sharp screwdriver and was able to break it away until I had cleared out the entire passage, at least where I could see it, on both the engine as shown in the photo, as well as the intake manifold which had been removed.
Once complete, I took my leaf blower (I know, real technical) and blew out all of the debris in the manifold from different angles until nothing further would blow out.
As I covered the engine compartment with towels so I could prep the surface for the intake manifold gasket, something kept nagging in the back of my mind.
Then it hit me.
Where did all the debris I chipped out on the engine (cylinder head) side go?
It was right then I realized what I had done.
So I bring the question to this forum basically for confirmation.
Did I, indeed, chip away all that debris down into the cylinder/valves/whatnot?
And does that mean I now will have to remove the cylinder heads, as well, in order to thoroughly clean up the mess I made?
Will I need to drain the oil and drop the oil pan, as well, in case the debris is in the oil?
Also, what exactly is that buildup?
Did I have the right idea even though it was executed poorly?
Or not? LOL
As for what I could have possibly been thinking...
In my mind, it seemed that the debris was headed into the exhaust pipes and would just blow out, no harm.
I sincerely appreciate any confirmations, clarifications, explanations, or recommendations that any can provide.
Thanks!
Bartman
I can follow directions reasonably well, and I have a very basic understanding of cars.
My car is a 1969 Plymouth Fury III 318 Automatic.
It's my daily driver, I even just drove it to Daytona Beach and back a couple weeks ago without incident.
Last week, I started having sudden overheating, and as I suspected, my water pump was going.
Took it to a shop that fixed it before and learned it also needed to have intake manifold gasket replaced (leaking) and valve cover gaskets replaced (leaking), as well as a radiator flush.
As I didn't have the amount necessary for the repairs, I decided I'd have to do it myself.
Purchased all necessary parts, fluids, etc.
Got new water pump installed, and figured while I had it open that far, I'd go ahead and tackle the intake manifold then the valve covers.
When I removed the intake manifold, I noticed a single opening on each side on both the manifold and where it met the cylinder head that was incredibly obstructed with a very hard, dry deposit, like some kind of carbon buildup. There was such a small opening remaining that I felt the car couldn't possibly be running very well with that much obstruction.
I get very poor mileage (maybe 12 mpg around town), and performance is sluggish.
SEE YELLOW ARROWS BELOW
It wasn't oily like sludge, it was very hard and dry.
I took a small, sharp screwdriver and was able to break it away until I had cleared out the entire passage, at least where I could see it, on both the engine as shown in the photo, as well as the intake manifold which had been removed.
Once complete, I took my leaf blower (I know, real technical) and blew out all of the debris in the manifold from different angles until nothing further would blow out.
As I covered the engine compartment with towels so I could prep the surface for the intake manifold gasket, something kept nagging in the back of my mind.
Then it hit me.
Where did all the debris I chipped out on the engine (cylinder head) side go?
It was right then I realized what I had done.
So I bring the question to this forum basically for confirmation.
Did I, indeed, chip away all that debris down into the cylinder/valves/whatnot?
And does that mean I now will have to remove the cylinder heads, as well, in order to thoroughly clean up the mess I made?
Will I need to drain the oil and drop the oil pan, as well, in case the debris is in the oil?
Also, what exactly is that buildup?
Did I have the right idea even though it was executed poorly?
Or not? LOL
As for what I could have possibly been thinking...
In my mind, it seemed that the debris was headed into the exhaust pipes and would just blow out, no harm.
I sincerely appreciate any confirmations, clarifications, explanations, or recommendations that any can provide.
Thanks!
Bartman
08-04-2014, 12:19 PM
#2
Mopar Lover
Called the heat cross over to heat the bottom of the intake manifold to help atomize fuel, and will contribute to poor fuel economy if blocked.
Each side is open to one of the exhaust ports and if that valve was open then debris has fallen into the cylinder.
If you have not turned the engine over look at the cam to see if that lifter is on the base circle having the valve closed, if CLOSED I would still pull the exhaust manifold and vacuum out any debris that may be sitting on the valve.
If OPEN pull the exhaust manifold and spark plug, make sure the intake valve is closed, turn the crank by hand to close it. When you get it on the exhaust stroke (piston coming up) cover the cross over passage and blow air into the spark plug hole.
As you bring the piston up the space will become smaller and easier to get it all out. Vacuum at the exhaust port with the cross over open too.
Some might say just run it and it will blow out, I wouldn't.
The build up is mostly burnt oil and normal, and yes you had the right idea, changing the oil only if some fell through the valley into the crankcase but not a bad idea.
Each side is open to one of the exhaust ports and if that valve was open then debris has fallen into the cylinder.
If you have not turned the engine over look at the cam to see if that lifter is on the base circle having the valve closed, if CLOSED I would still pull the exhaust manifold and vacuum out any debris that may be sitting on the valve.
If OPEN pull the exhaust manifold and spark plug, make sure the intake valve is closed, turn the crank by hand to close it. When you get it on the exhaust stroke (piston coming up) cover the cross over passage and blow air into the spark plug hole.
As you bring the piston up the space will become smaller and easier to get it all out. Vacuum at the exhaust port with the cross over open too.
Some might say just run it and it will blow out, I wouldn't.
The build up is mostly burnt oil and normal, and yes you had the right idea, changing the oil only if some fell through the valley into the crankcase but not a bad idea.
08-04-2014, 06:42 PM
#4
You seem to live in a fairly warm climate? I would leave them "plugged," only cleaning enough to re-install the manifold. Today's typical E10 or E15 gas is more susceptible to vapor lock, and running the manifold cooler might be an advantage.
I always just lay towels out in the valley, coming up to catch any dirt, then fold it up afterwards and pull it out. A vacuum!!! can be used to good advantage. Don't be afraid to become a "duct tape king" You can tape smaller lengths of hose into your vacuum to reach tight areas
I never use the manifold end seals. Get everything CLEAN. and DRY. Use a fast dry solven like brakeclean as a final cleaner. Get everything ready. Use whatever sealer you are going to on the side gaskets. I never seal anything except a light coat around the water passages.
But on the end seals I simply toss them out. Lay a nice thick bead of RTV right before you sit the manifold down. I would try fit it first dry, to get an idea of thickness needed if there's any question
Lay down a nice thick bead, front an rear, sit down the manifold, and waste no time getting the bolts snugged down. When you have that done, take your finger and / or a towel and smooth the two beads into the "crack." Make CERTAIN it is sealed. Don't run the engine for at least 24 hours. More is better.
Be sure you get the oil sender installed with a bit of sealer so it does not leak.
REtighten the manifold bolts after warm up.
A huge "virus" of gasket leaks is often indicative of deeper problems.........an engine on it's last legs, which generates too much crankcase pressure, plugged or restricted breather and PCV system, or other problems causing pressure internally.
I always just lay towels out in the valley, coming up to catch any dirt, then fold it up afterwards and pull it out. A vacuum!!! can be used to good advantage. Don't be afraid to become a "duct tape king" You can tape smaller lengths of hose into your vacuum to reach tight areas
I never use the manifold end seals. Get everything CLEAN. and DRY. Use a fast dry solven like brakeclean as a final cleaner. Get everything ready. Use whatever sealer you are going to on the side gaskets. I never seal anything except a light coat around the water passages.
But on the end seals I simply toss them out. Lay a nice thick bead of RTV right before you sit the manifold down. I would try fit it first dry, to get an idea of thickness needed if there's any question
Lay down a nice thick bead, front an rear, sit down the manifold, and waste no time getting the bolts snugged down. When you have that done, take your finger and / or a towel and smooth the two beads into the "crack." Make CERTAIN it is sealed. Don't run the engine for at least 24 hours. More is better.
Be sure you get the oil sender installed with a bit of sealer so it does not leak.
REtighten the manifold bolts after warm up.
A huge "virus" of gasket leaks is often indicative of deeper problems.........an engine on it's last legs, which generates too much crankcase pressure, plugged or restricted breather and PCV system, or other problems causing pressure internally.
08-29-2014, 08:21 AM
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I'm probably going to find a more appropriate section to make a separate thread about this, but I'll put a heads-up here, as well.
I decided getting the service manual for my Fury would be a good idea, something I probably should have done long before now.
I've heard the pros and cons of people's opinions on Chilton's and Haynes', so I decided to simply get the original Plymouth factory service manual.
FWIW, I'm not thrilled with it, but that's not my point.
I paid $29.95 for an instant download of the manual I needed from http://cdmanuals.net/, and now my pre-paid debit card I used has been compromised, with 2 separate $10 charges to Skype.
Understand, this is a pre-paid card I use specifically for things like this (online purchases).
I have $25 automatically loaded every pay period, originally to pay for online hosting, but I stopped using the hosting over a year ago, and now I mostly use the card for Redbox or local purchases.
So the reason I got the card in the first place has paid off, not wanting to expose my actual bank account card to internet purchases.
The scary part is, I almost used our regular debit card instead, but decided to just load the extra money for the manual instead.
Anyway, I'm posting this as a warning - http://cdmanuals.net/ is more than likely NOT TO BE TRUSTED for purchases.
I immediately had problems with the download, and had to call them for a new download link.
And now my card is compromised.
Am I 110% ABSOLUTELY sure it was them?
Of course not.
But seeing as for over a year the bulk of use has been Redbox or a soda from the Circle K or buying lunch at a local fast food place, the odds are pretty high that these guys are the culprits.
Just puttin' it out there.
Be warned.
I decided getting the service manual for my Fury would be a good idea, something I probably should have done long before now.
I've heard the pros and cons of people's opinions on Chilton's and Haynes', so I decided to simply get the original Plymouth factory service manual.
FWIW, I'm not thrilled with it, but that's not my point.
I paid $29.95 for an instant download of the manual I needed from http://cdmanuals.net/, and now my pre-paid debit card I used has been compromised, with 2 separate $10 charges to Skype.
Understand, this is a pre-paid card I use specifically for things like this (online purchases).
I have $25 automatically loaded every pay period, originally to pay for online hosting, but I stopped using the hosting over a year ago, and now I mostly use the card for Redbox or local purchases.
So the reason I got the card in the first place has paid off, not wanting to expose my actual bank account card to internet purchases.
The scary part is, I almost used our regular debit card instead, but decided to just load the extra money for the manual instead.
Anyway, I'm posting this as a warning - http://cdmanuals.net/ is more than likely NOT TO BE TRUSTED for purchases.
I immediately had problems with the download, and had to call them for a new download link.
And now my card is compromised.
Am I 110% ABSOLUTELY sure it was them?
Of course not.
But seeing as for over a year the bulk of use has been Redbox or a soda from the Circle K or buying lunch at a local fast food place, the odds are pretty high that these guys are the culprits.
Just puttin' it out there.
Be warned.
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