Newf Wit a 440

Hi all,

So I finally cracked into my 440. All went well, I have my pistons, crank and cam left to pull. It looked relatively clean. The was some grayish matter(grease maybe) in some of the crevices inthe valley. The silicone under the valley pan was a light blue, same color as the motor.The motor wasn't seized so that was good. The head gaskets were metal and measured .018, they had a Chrysler stamped symbol so they may be the original. The timing chain was pretty slack, Cam sprocket looked good, All the lifters popped right out with a pick tool. Cam sprocket also may have been the original. It was aluminum with nylon coated teeth. All the nylon was in tact. The pistons weren't dished but flat with two notches towards the front of the engine. I didn't see any stampings though. Would there be any on the topside of the factory ones? I did a rough(vernier caliper) ID of the bores. Looks like it hasn't been touched, 4.320". I'll have a better Look at things once I get into the bottom end. Hoping to post some pics tomorrow. Thanks for all your help so far. This is a fun engine to work on compared to my 86 FI Toyota. Will post updates on how everything else checks out this weekend.

Cheers,

Joe Welder

Archer

Joe -

Just in case you were planning on using the old timing chain - one word - DON'T. A good double roller is cheap insurance.

Other than that, sounds like you're well on your way - congrats.

Archer

bremereric

Metal head gaskets, Nylon covered timing gear and pistons were stock factory. Chances are your motor is virgin except for the blue silicone on the the valley pan. The grey stuff on the lifter gallery was sludge. Acrher already warned you about reusing the timing set.

John Van

Joe, glad to see you are finally tearing it down. Take lots of pics! Like you, I much rather work on a 440 than my toyota truck!

john

Newf Wit a 440

Thanks for the response Archer, I was planning on replacing the whole valve train as well as the Cam, sprockets and chain. When you say "double roller are you referring to double Cam sprockets and crank sprockets? If so, what would the advantages be?? Also, would that affect the location of the balancer?? Oh I meant to mention in my first post that there wasn't an oil slinger on the crank, is that normal for a 78' 440? Thanks again.

Joe Welder

Archer

Joe -

The double roller timing chains just have two rows of teeth and are all metal, so it's a stronger set up. They will fit under the std cover and shouldn't affect the balancer one bit.

If you mean the plate that goes between the oil pan and the block, don't know if they came in '78 440s or not (though they all had them), but they should be pretty easy to find and it's a good idea to have one, keeps oil off the reciprocating system.

Archer

TVLynn

It keeps the crank seal from getting flooded with oil and slings some oil on the T chain

Silverick

Isn't that item called a 'windage tray'?

scotts74birds

"Grayish" sludge might be an indication of bearing material.

Archer

Silver -

Yes, but people have a tendency of renaming things, I thought that's what he was talking about.

Archer

Newf Wit a 440

I was referring to the metal ring that goes in front of the crank sprocket if I'm not mistaken, although this engine did not have a Windage tray either. Took out a few pistons last night. They are coming out relatively easy. Looking at the rod bolts I was wondering what size I would go up to (7/16)? There doesn't seem to be alot of meat(metal) to go any bigger than that. Thanks.

Joe

bboogieart

Yes the oil slinger would be on the front of the crank like you thought. They were for slinging oil on the chain as mentioned. The windage tray is after market I beleive. Scrapes oil off the crank and rod ends. I wouldn't go bigger with the bolts, just use ARP fasteners they are much stronger than stock. Sounds like you have a good block for a fun toy.

Newf Wit a 440

That's reassuring in regards to the bolts. Thanks for the response. Are those bolts pressed in? I have access to a hydraulic press where I work, and if there isn't any machining involved I wonder if I might be able to do them myself. Also with regards to the piston wrist pins, are they something that are commonly reused? Or for that matter is the size compatible with aftermarket Pistons? I was thinking of going with some SpeedPros. I'm not opposed to farming out specialty work or replacing parts, I just like to Learn and do things myself when possible. Thanks again, all the info I've been getting here is like gold, and I appreciate everyones feedback.

Cheers,

Joe Welder

bboogieart

Not pressed in. Studs for the mains and through bolts on the rods.
Should be able to reuse your rods and wrist pins just get pistons for what you have.

BuckNeccid

If you're buying new pistons, generally they come with new wrist pins as well. It's a pretty involved little task, but you CAN make some home made jigs and using them, a vise and a couple of propane torches, install your own pistons onto your rods/pins without the need for a press. It takes confidence, a steady hand, and a lot of attention to detail, you don't want to install them wrong and have to have them pressed off and start all over.

Newf Wit a 440

Thanks for the response. I will look into how involved it is and ask around to see what it would cost at some shops. May turn out to be more time than it is worth.

Cheers,

Joe

Newf Wit a 440

So the crank is out. Mains measured 2.75", Journals 2.375. I guess all I'll need is a polish then, not a grind. That works for me. Any suggestions on emery grit to do this? I was thinking 800. The manual says no less than 400. Thanks.

Joe

Coronet 500

One more thing you can check is straightness. Remove bearings 2,3+4, lay the crank on 1+5 with a dial indicator on #3. Rotate the crank and see if there is any movement on the dial.

Newf Wit a 440

I can't seem to find my manual at the moment but could you tell me what the tolerance for that measurement should be? Thanks.

Joe

Newf Wit a 440

Hi all,


I checked out my forged crank a little more thoroughly this evening and it seems pretty good. At what point does it need a grind? The mains are all within 1/2 a thou, the journal with the most wear is 2-1/2 thou. its even though all the way around. the rest are within 1-1/2 thou. Does that constitute a grind or just a polish? Runout is less than 1/2 a thou.


I was also wondering about one of the frost plug holes. There seems to be alot of build up in one that had a block heater. I didn't want to go at it with a die grinder or anything until I got some second and third opinions. I'll post a pic here for you to take a look. Thanks,

Joe

scotts74birds

I over-do things, but I would take it to the shop, have THEM check it to be safe. You were going to take it here anyways to have it balanced, right?

Newf Wit a 440

Yes I will take it in and have them check it when I have the assembly balanced. I've read that the pulley bolt pattern is different from 72 and earlier cranks. Does that mean I'll have to replace my 78' pulley? I need to source a harmonic balancer for the forged crank as well. It sounds like there is a variety here too. Any tips?

Joe

Newf Wit a 440

Besides replacing the balancer and pulley to match the 67' crank that I have, can anyone tell me if I need a different flexplate and torque converter if I'm going to change to a forged crank or do they just remove the weights on the coverter to change the balance to an internal from an externally balanced rotating assembly? Thanks.

JW

bremereric

No to the different torque plate...Yes to the torque convertor. You will need to have it balanced also. My machine shop will balance the whole rotating assembly including your flywheel or torque convertor.