maca

Gooday all
I have put a 1995 360 magnum motor in an Australian Charger. It is stock apart from extractors and a 750 holley carby. I want to put in the best performance cam i can without changing the heads but i am happy to change the springs. Compcam said the biggest cam i can go is 20-746-9
Has anyone done this and were they happy. Anyone have any youtube of how this cam sounds.
cheers Maca

PK1

I have used that cam an it worked well. I am pleased with almost all comps products. Customer service was tough sometimes but overall good. I have used all their others and had some made. For carbs and Fuel injected.

You can use the a Pioneer Spring single 1.437OD / 1.035 or Hughes 1110 spring and a regular dodge 2.2 retainer.

You can go bigger with cam but the retainer will hit the guide. Stay at or under .512 at the valve to be safe.

If you are using a carb I would recommend a different stick but i dont know what your set up is? Weight? Gears? Auto? TC? desired cruise rpm? Stock intake Fuel injection? Carb?

maca

Hi PK1
Thanks for your reply
I have an auto with a 2800 stall and 3-5 diff gears. The charger weighs around 3000lbs.
With its current set up the motor doesnt like being reved above 6000rpm so i think a cam that goes to about 5800 to 6000 might be the go. The LA motors in Australia were very popular but there is not much knowledge about magnum motors.
Compcams said because i am running a carby they would have to regrind something on the cam to suit my carby instead of fuel injection. They also said they dont have the springs and i would have to go to mopar for them.
Do you think this cam will be a good step up from the stock one?
cheers greg

PK1

That looks like an excellent setup! And welcome to the forum. Great knowledge here and no egos. I am blown away at some of the experience level on this forum.. You found a good place to post.

What intake? Stock 5.9L cam? Stock valve train?

Down load Comp Cams CAMQUEST and turn off the "computer controlled" selection on the top. When you do that you will get some of their other grinds.

You can add "custom head flow numbers" in the program. Look at Hughes Engines website for the Magnum flow numbers. Then you can play with the peaks different cams bring based on your exhaust and intake set up.

For that stall, weight and gear you made a good pick. . Any bigger and you would need to pull the heads and cut the guides down and step for a better spring. Not hard but not sure if you want to do that since you selected the other cam. The cam you selected will make good power but have comp cut the LSA at 110 and install at 106.

The stock conical spring in there are junk. Get them out of there. Im surprised you revved it that high with those..

Here is the order I would do assuming you have a budget and are working in steps.

1. Pioneer Spring or Hughes 1110. PM me for part numbers and web sites if you cant find them. Use a stock dodge 2.2 retainer and your current keepers. The spring pocket measure 1.445 OD with a step of .945. You have a small installed height of 1.64. That will give you more usable rpm.

2. A good 1.75 header. Full length or tri-y.
( All magnum exhaust ports have a weak design. Anything less that a 1.75 header will hurt the flow. You can see this by the way the cams all have more duration on the exhaust side. Or the lift will be plus 10-20 percent. ) That is why you see such massive gains when car craft or popular hot rodding does one of these. These motors with hydraulic roller, 8mm valves and closed chamber heads work well.

3. Then add the cam.

Adding the cam before step 1 and 2 will not work correctly.

Read "How to Hot Rod a Small Block Mopar" by Larry Sheppard. Its old but his math is spot on and its a great resource.

bremereric

Here's the link for the camquest...I got it on my computer.

http://www.camquest.com/

maca

Thanks for the welcome PK1.
I tried the camquest but there only seems to be options for 360 LA motors and not the magnums. Every cam it recommends when I look it up it’s for a LA motor. Maybe I am doing something wrong.
I have a stock valve train. As far as I know the cam is stock but I can’t be 100% sure as it came with the motor. I googled the casting numbers on the cam but couldn’t find anything. There are two sets of ID numbers 15181 on the end and cast number 7778. Everything else was stock so I would think the cam is too. The manifold is http://www.pentastarparts.com.au/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3529 That was the only one available in Australia at the time.
Thanks for the offer for part numbers and where to purchase from would be a massive help. Cams and valve trains are not my strong point and any help would be greatly appreciated. I would like to order as much as I can from one place as postage to Australia is about $100 every time. I will be ordering the cam in the next week.
What did you mean about A good 1.75 header. Full length or tri-y I have these extractors. I have fitted these extractors
http://www.hemiperformance.com.au/store2/p_1884_Small-Block-Rack-Pinion-Pacemaker-Extractors-340-360-408
Is 1.75 the pipe size?
Cheers Greg

bremereric

1.75 is the 1 3/4" pipe size.

Coronet 500

Pipes look good, manifold is a great choice. When you went in to Camquest after 360, did you ask for hydraulic roller lifters?

I just tried and it came up retro roller, I'm at a loss as how to access Magnum. My best advice would be to go through find the recommendation and then find their comparable cam, keeping in mind rocker ratio differences. The duration stays the same only lift changes.

PK1

You cant access magnum specifically. You have to check "computer controlled" at the top of the program where you input desired use. When you click that all the LA stuff will fall out of view. So just select 360, then click computer controlled. But leave cam as :"hydraulic roller" As Coronet 500 stated..

However, You are no longer computer controlled. So all the LA motor cam specs are accessible for you to look at. Comp will just have to grind them for you for that nose. You are using magnum timing cover correct? You added electric fuel pump?

All of the computer controlled grinds will work as is. But you should change the LSA. And since comps custom grinds price are very close to on the self items id get what you want. They aint cheap!

You made EXCELLENT choices in manifold and exhaust. That car is Fantastic!!! Super straight with cool stance. Nice job! You may be new to this but you will pick it up quick. The magnums aren't that hard.

For Parts:

www.northernautoparts.com Pioneer Spring 810102-4
www.hughesengines.com Hughes Valve Spring 1110

Check over where you are since neither Hughes or Pioneer makes these. You can buy these in bulk and most cylinder head shops can get them under different names. Copy the specs and see what you can get.. I have Comps 995 on my magnum test mule with EQ heads (which I think come from your country?) But my installed height is different and they had some machining to the step but they fit the pocket. And yes the 2.2 retainer fits them too

I have both Pioneer and Hughes springs in the shop, measured them, tested pressures etc.. They spec out the same. At 100 bucks shipping go with the cheaper shipper.

You can get the retainers over there for a dodge 2.2L engine. Rumor has it you can use the GM3100 engine spring? I have NEVER tried this so I cant comment.

Tell Comp you want the XE lobe. The same lobe the use in the XE264 and XE265.

I am assuming you want to leave the heads on and leave the guides alone.

So keep the lobe lift at .3125 to be safe with guide / retainer and spings. That will give you .500 lift at the valve. .3125 x 1.6 factory rocker ration = .500 (check my math, im tired

So it will be a variant of the XE265 and read as such... 216/224 .500/.500 LSA 110 They grind in 4 degrees advance automatically.

You CAN go larger but you said automatic and I assume 3 speed? Any bigger and you may not enjoy the lower rpms. But I am very conservative and like to go smaller. This cam is for a cruiser, weekend driver, with some strip time for fun.

Coronet 500 and Bremereric have more experience with the 727 trans than I do with that stall so get their input on cams too.

When you make your pic and get your cam one of us can walk you through measuring base circle on the old and the new to get you a ballpark on pushrods which you get there. ( 5/16 oil thru hardened for use with guide plates) You need to still measure but we can get you close on your set up length to measure valve tip / rocker contact.. The stock VT isnt adjustable so this is critical step.

Take some pics for us of the engine drive accessories and header clearance, I haven't seen those headers on the magnum. Did you use the serpentine set up? Or go to vgrove with LA water pump?

Coronet 500

I like the look of that cam:http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=661&sb=0
Any more and I think you'll lose power unless you raise compression and port heads.

maca

Thanks mate
I also got some spare parts when i brought the motor as it was going to be supercharged. But i just put it back to stock. Here are some of the parts. I will contact compcams because i cant find the part numbers on there website and i might be able to use some of these.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMAG0501.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMAG0498.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMAG0495.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMAG0497.jpg
I kept the timing cover, water pump, serpentine belt the same with an electric fuel pump. But i am currently fitting a A518 4 speed auto which should be here in Feb from the Us
cheers Greg

Compcams responce below
Greg, this appears to be our stud with maybe a suppliers part number. Thelifters that you have says 834-16 but that that is a hydraulic flt tappetwhich obviously is not the case.. The rockers look good, and if you canget me some measurements on the springs. We can go from there.
Hughes response when i asked about postage on springs
reg,
I would love to sell you a cam if you haven't already purchased it. We guarantee our cams will outperform any competitors cam of the same size or we will buy it back.
Ours that is similar to that COMP is the HER1828AL .
The answer to your initial question is yes, our 1110 springs should be adequate for that COMP cam.
Postal will be $55.0

PK1

Dave Hughes Cam wont work without altering your heads. Retainers will hit guide. And you dont want an LSA of 114 with a carburetor.

The magnum lifter are fine as is. I would sell the ones in the packaging to recover some shipping. They look like retrofit LA rollers?

The retainers are Cranes and should work but you need to measure twice and check.

Measure coil thickness in the middle of the spring, free height, ID and OD and give us dimensions.. One of us may know then buy the numbers. But never put a used or unknown spring on a motor unless you test its rates at IH and Open Load. Any machine shop will do it for you, most for a cup of coffee or doughnut At least here in the states anyway..

What vendors do you have over there? Alot of stuff is sold under different lables that is the same.... Maybe we can search your AU sites and find you stuff

I noticed a cam in the background? Do you have regrinders over there?

maca

I thought it wouldn't work. I will take the springs and a cup of coffee or doughnut to the engine rebuilders tomorrow
I will ask them to give me the info. I will also need to get some gaskets shipped. Last time i brought some magnum stuff in Australia i paid $90 for exhaust gaskets and $190 for the water pump. After i stripped the motor i brought a full engine gasket set from US ebay for about $120 from memory. It had 2 types of intake end gaskets in it. Some cork ones and some rubber ones. The rubber ones didnt fit so i had to use the cork ones. Not sure what the rubber ones were for. I guess Hughes would have some gaskets.
We do have regrinders over here but that cam was the one the previous owner brought for the supercharger application. It is a solid cam.
Cheers Greg

PK1

1. LA Exhaust Gasket and Magnum Exhaust Gaskets will work with those headers.
2. LA Head Gasket WILL work with Magnum Heads. Check push rod opening for rub. Magnum heads gaskets dont work on LA motors.
3. Stock Magnum replacement intake gaskets will work for the intake and the rubber gaskets are for the front and rear of the intake and are keyed to align on the block and overlap where they meet the heads. A small dab or silicone on the joining corners and I have never had a leak. The long rectangular gasket is for the plenum overlay... You don't need that any more. ( No disrespect meant, if you know all this stuff, just being thorough in case someone reads this who is newer to the procedure).

4. Stock LA valve cover and gaskets work on the Magnum but the Mag heads have more bolts for better sealing. You can modify the LA ones with a punch.

I have seen production differences in models made in / sold for different markets (countries) so double check everything.

With re grinders over there you can turn the stock cam 214/218 at .500 lift. 114LSA. That is is far as I would grind before you get into heat treated materials. I don't know what they charge over there to grind but comp custom grind is 350plus with 50 plus shipping... You can regrind what you have for half that at least.

maca

Thanks PK1
Does the timing case gasket from the LA motor fit the magnum?
Looks like i may be in luck with the duel valve springs and retainers i think. I had them measured today.
The outer spring is
.186" thick
out dia 1.480"
in dia 1.096"
The inner spring is
.142" thick
out dia 1.103"
in dia .815"
Together the uninstalled hight for the spring only is 2"
Together the installed hight @ 1.660 is 122lb without the retainer (Spring only)

The rubber gaskets for the front and rear of the intake did not fit my motor. The had rubber locators to go into a locating hole which mine did not have. Maybe they are for the fuel injection manifold. I just used the cork ones and they sealed fine.

Cheers Greg

PK1

The springs wont be a drop in for stock app. The pocket on the Magnum Head is 1.445 OD. The Step is .996... I believe. I have a set I can confirm on with out springs if you are getting different numbers when you measure but Im pretty sure of those specs. BUT, you said someone was going to set this motor up for a SC and they may have altered the heads already

Pull a spring on the heads and check..


Don't worry about the little holes for the gaskets,they get scrapped flush when cleaned and usually not noticed. You need to pick out the detent with a dental tool or they come out when the block is baked and cleaned. You can go right over them. They are strictly an assembly aid.

Send us a pick of you accessories and the serp set up. And what did you use for a fan?

maca

I used a thermo fan and cut the dodge accessories bracket so i could fit a carby manifold and still use the alternator bracket. I just had to order a shorter belt. Here is a link to my photo. I will get a better one once i have put the motor back together.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/IMG_0919.jpg

I am going to order the comp cam 20-746-9 and hughes springs 1110 as PK1 you were correct and mine will not fit. I have recently installed a Rollmaster timing chain set. P/N CS5000 chrysler small block 273-392 chain 3dr68-2. Will this be ok or will i need a different chain set (adjustable?) I would like to install new retainers and locks with the new springs. Would Hughes have them or compcams? Thanks for the help
cheers Greg

PK1

Chain will work. Dave Hughes will have everything you need. Dave has retainers and locks if you want new locks.

Comps retainer for the 995 spring will work even though it is for a double spring and www.competitionproducts.com makes a Howards titanium one for only 40 bucks more than new steel ones. You dont NEED titanium but the 8mm valves and that cam WILL rev excellent and the lighter retainer could help VT stability with a single spring in the upper rpms. Again NOT needed but you have selected all top shelf products so far so I'll throw it out there since shipping is expensive.

maca

Thanks Pk1
I am starting to get excited
Here are the final cam specs. If you see any probs please let me know. Thanks for your help. cheers greg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/...0/image001.png

PK1

All looks good to me. It think you will be pleased with that power! Glad we could help out.

Hint:
The lifters will fit in both ways. There is a little oil hole that needs to face the inward toward the cam. If installed wrong you will have problems.

PK1

Once you get you retainer from Hughes, slide it over your valve and put the locks on. Then measure from the guide seal lip to the lowest point of the retainer while holding the valve closed with compressed air into the cylinder.

Check an intake and an exhaust valve

If the numbers check, install the cam and then set up the Valve Train.

BEFORE you start motor or put on valve covers or spark plugs rotate the motor by hand and watch every spring cylce thru its range of motion without binding.

The pic is above is from a set of my Magnum EQ heads with the pockets and steps cut. Installed height is 1.68 with a comp 995 spring. But it should give you an idea of how to check the measurement.

maca

Thanks for the info. I will order everything on monday and get it underway. Not sure if i will fit the cam or i might get the local engine reconditioner to do it as i haven't done one before.
It will take around 2 weeks to get my gear and then once it is fitted i will fit the new transmission. I will post some progress pics when i start and some finished pics. Thanks again

Good news. As i didnt rebuild the motor i didnt know for sure what cam is in it. As mentioned before it revs a bit higher than it should. So my concern was that i would go to all this trouble and it wouldnt be any different. Tonight i pulled off the valve covers and the springs look to be the standard behive springs. My thought is that if it has a good performance cam in it the springs would be different.

maca

Hi again
My transmission a518 came today. Do you know what type of transmission fluid do I use and how many liters should I put in with a new empty stall converter.
Cheers Greg

PK1

Nothing but ATF4 goes in.

46RH
Initial Fill 4.1quarts
Total 11.5 quarts plus or minus depending on pan depth

You dont have to pre-fill but I prefer to put a quart in the TC and start trans in neutral to be safe. Check level in neutral. Consider adding a magnet to the pan and a drain plug.

Post back how the RH works for you.

maca

Thanks, i will have a look for it as i have not seen it on aussie shelves. The transmission shop and a couple of guys here who have done this conversion told me to use dexron 3 but i just googled it and i see it is a debate in itself. I will check the shops tomorrow for the atf4
cheers

maca

Thanks for your help with cam selection. Here is a clip of start up. I have to finish hooking up the trans. I will let you know how that goes.
cheers greg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjbWC...ature=youtu.be