beepbeeoJEEP

Ok peeps,
I just got my old girl running around the block a few weeks ago.Did fine until I stopped. Apparently, my battery was not being charged as I trucked down the road.
So, first thing I did was go buy a new battery, to be on the safe side.
Well, now to the point of trusting my Voltage gauge, said I had only 11-12 volts, I have auxillary fans that I kick in to keep my cooling system right, then it drops to about 8 bolts.
So, I pulled the altinator, which was a GM one wire to the battery dilieeoo and had it checked.Three red flags, no good.
Hmmmm.
So, instead of thinking it through, I just bought another alternator, same type, remanufactured from Meeiiicoo, took it home, put it on and....
still, the voltage gauge issues.
The only way to check for failure is to run on down the road and check to see if I am left with a dead battery again.
However, I am open for some knowledable advice, if any one has the time here.

beepbeeoJEEP

New bie here...............

challenger

welcome to the forums I would change out the voltage regulator but do you have a voltage tester where you can check it yourself or maybe purchase one , they dont cost that much and they are always good to have for future referances , also make sure your voltage regulator is on a good ground

Coronet 500

From a smarter guy than me: https://moparforums.com/forums/f84/s...g-system-9905/

440roadrunner

If it's a "one wire" (for CERTAIN) and does not charge, you probably are experiencing the usual "old worn out bulkhead connector" blues

At least two high-current paths go through the bulkhead, and when you add stuff like big fans, big stereo, and BIG alternator, they fail even worse than original.

Start by reading the article at Mad Electrical:

concerning the Mopar "full current" ammeter

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml

and some more good ideas

from here:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

You may have lost connection either in the bulkhead connector OR at the ammeter

But you don't have to "run down the road" and "see if the battery charges," don't you have a multimeter? You can buy a decent digi meter at any parts store for about 25 bucks, and that plus a 12V test lamp is absolute minimum for electrical work on these cars

MReeves

Hey listen to "440roadrunner" he is right on..... Especially the part of having a volt meter and a test light....

Welcome to the forum.... Glad to have you and I'm sure you will figure this out with the help on here.... While you are on here be sure to check out the Mopar of the Month contest... See the sticky for the simple rules and then you can help choose the monthly winner......

78D200

Welcome!

rickyr

welcome to the forum

beepbeeoJEEP

I really appreciate all the return posts and will follow up on some of the advice.
I did go out and get a voltmeter.
Battery was at 12.08 bolts to start, without engine running.
Cranhed 'er up and the reading went to 11.80 volts.
Put the lights/fan on and it dropped to 11.4 volts.
Turned it off,
checked the battery again and it was down to 11.8 volts.
Anyway I will do some research and see if I can find the gremlin.

78D200

With the vehicle running, you should have ~14.5V-15.0V and about 12.6V when it is not running.

beepbeeoJEEP

Yes, that is what I expected, but, the 11.8 volts surely shows I have a gremlin.

beepbeeoJEEP

That is a good saying, I am hesitatant to drop down 200 bucks until I am sure I have the problem addressed correctly.The guy at the parts store said the alternator I got puts out a minimum of 70 amps, but, my friend who has a Charger 1970 says that the idle output is the monster.He recommends a high output alterrnater. And yes, to do it right the first time, I guess I should change all the system over to MOPAR parts instead of half -A the alternative of using a one wire GM product.

TVLynn

I would check the alt gauge too. Check the back side for burn't wires

beepbeeoJEEP

Thanks TV.
If I change to an upgrade,
since I cannot even find a voltage regulater,
I guess I need to add a voltage regulator, a new powerful alternator with twin peg leads, a new distributer.
Am I missing something, electronic ignition ???
I just dont understand with my single wire alternator why there is no voltage regulator.
What a Frankenstien.
Like the earlier post mentioned,
if you fix it right the first time,
it cuts out a lot of useless problems.
What would be the best route to take if I just did a complete new wiring job to my charging system???? New distributer also????
$500 bucks cover it???

beepbeeoJEEP

Just for your amusement, this is the rest of the story.
I bought the vehicle from a-
quote-" I am a mechanic and a fabricator".
Up front, I will give him credit ,
for the engine runs sweet and sounds like a little drummerboy,
it just sits there and purrs real nice.
I want to make sure I dont disturb the homelogy of the good running aspect of the engine.
However, be seems to have been a caveman mechanic, dont know how to say it, he has made and rebuilt a few old 68 Plymouth engines and I have heard nothing but good reports of his work.
My transmission is a 727 Torqueflite.
My camshaft is one size bigger then stock.
My right header is from a 68 Dodge truck.My left header is custom built due to the tight space configuration.
Engine is fully rebuilt, carberator is Edelbrock 750 cfm.
Spark plugs are Champions one size hotter then stock.
Intake manifold is factory Roadrunner.
Pistons are original 68 Hi-Comp Roadrunner.Piston rings are new.
Cylinder heads are also 68 factory,440,Roadrunner.
Super commando heads.Cranshaft is cut 10, all valve train components are new MOPAR.Original 68 RR block.
Front and rear differentials are Dana 60 with 4.88 gears.
All this placed in a 1986 Jeep Wagonneer 4x4 Woody.
Its ALIVE and is a true beast.I have my work cut out for me,
but when I put my peddle to the metal, the traction bars grab and...
whoooooo...............what a crowd pleaser.
But, it is a HotRod to say the least, I just want to make it right.

beepbeeoJEEP

Hello peeps,
Well, I dont know where to start. I believe that if I try to fix the existing configeration, the end result will be the Frankenstein it is now.
First of all, I can see that if I want to do it right, it will have to be overhauled top to bottom.
1)First rule of thumb-If you gona fix something, fix it right.
2)Second rule of thumb-make everything MOPAR parts.
3)Third rule of thumb-Forget about $500, you get what you pay for.
Before all this is done, if I can walk away with 7 grand invested, I will be lucky.
1000 -Electrical/distributor/wires/coil/etc
1000-Carb and exhaust system
1000-suspension
1000-Tires
2000-paintjob
1000-creature comforts
and thats at a minimum............end total value 10 g
Yep, thats my story and I am sticking to it.
First step,
Mancini Racing.
I contacted them for design/build,
stayed tuned, my friends.

mikerp76

the one wire alt has an internal regulator. and the original mopar is an external regulator system. the one wire can be made to work. first thing to check is if you are getting 12v to the alternator.

440roadrunner

I recommend you slow down, you sound as if you are thrashing around "tryiing to get out."

One wire alternators are not a favorite thing for me, BUT THEY DO WORK

You probably have a WIRING problem, and it probably is related to the BULKHEAD CONNECTOR

Measure the voltage at the battery, and then at the alternator OUTPUT STUD.

If the voltage at the alternator stud is high, 14-15V, this shows that you have a WIRING PROBLEM from there to the battery

What typically happens is this: Mopar traditional bulkhead connectors have at least three large current paths in and out of the bulkhead connector for the charging system and ammeter circuit. THE TERMINALS in the connector were never really adequate for high current use, especially when adding "big" stereos, lights, fans, etc

In later model pickups / other models, the back of the ammeter mount was PLASTIC and the ammeter componets are SANDWICHED together using the PLASTIC as a mount. THIS MEANS that xxifxx WHEN that area got a little warm from a lot of current, the PLASTIC would soften, allowing loose connections at the ammeter, which generates more heat. This makes what is known as a "snowball," more correctly should be a "fireball."

Read this carefully:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...p-gauges.shtml

More decent articles from same folks:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

This article echoes some of my thoughts on "one wire" systems, although THEY DO WORK

http://www.madelectrical.com/electri...hreewire.shtml

In conclusion, I would START by pulling the bulkhead connector apart and inspecting it, I would read the MAD article, and SERIOUSLY consider performing the "ammeter bypass" they outline. At the same time, UPSIZE the charging wire which you will run directly from the alternator to the battery or starter relay.

beepbeeoJEEP

Thanks guys. You are all right.
That is what I need is information like you guys gave me.Baby steps in reverse engineering.
Tomorrow is my day off and I will try to check things out,step by step and see what I got.
One of the reasons I contacted Mancini for a parts list is it would be a good blueprint of the actual items I need.
But, that is a cop out,
anyway,
I need to get a plain old ordinary working system.
Once I do that, then, I can upgrade one step at a time.
Again, thanks guys.
Patience and understabding is a virtue,
I will keep you posted.

beepbeeoJEEP

Hey,
those links to the "madelectrical" sites were great.
I was actually stunned to see that the GM Delco altinator was actually a good updrade for the one wire technique.
I think my "Caveman" fabricator mechanic was not so off the wall anyway with his thinking and design.
I know that he did make some good choices with the Dana differentials and leaving or adding the 727 Torqueflite tranny.
Anyway,now out to the Yeep and see if I can make the engine go beepbeep instead of meep meep.

beepbeeoJEEP

Well,
Went and got me a test light.According to "madelectric",
now is that mad electric or made electric,.....anyway.
Poked around, metered my alternator output indepently,it showed 11.40 volts.Checked with the guy at the parts store, he said that might not be accurate, depends on a load before it would kick it up to 14 volts possibly or high rpm output(cruising speed)???
Put brick on the accelerator pedal, checked again, hooked back up to directly wired to battery,checked again.Still 11.4 some odd volts, no increase at all.
Maybe I should have put a load on it, lights,heater fan, rediatopr fans, I will try that.
But, as everyone has been suggesting to do, I did not do and go to the bulkhead harness.
Thought to myself ",self, check to avenue of the "charging " wire from alternator ". Used continuity checker test light, found wire going into a snap together plug.
Well, 1968 engine in 1986 Jeep leads to at least 25 years of possible miniture "terminal" illness.
Ah, the weakest link in the chain is the true defintion of the strength of the chain.
Dadgum wire connector fell apart in my fingers in crusty green oxidation debris. This is only the tip of the iceburg.Since the engine was rebuilt, it is to a point, newer then the 86Jeep parts.
My buddy with his 70 Charger gets sick when we try to talk,
I say 1968 Roadrunner 383 and he says 1986 Jeep for tracking problems.
He is funny that way, you guys know MOPAR thinking, and most dont include Jeep as MOPAR. He says I got a Jeep and everytime I talk 383 RR engine to him, he talks about Jeep engine.Hee-heee.
To put the icing on the cake, I just bought a MOPAR baseball cap and
strutted over to his house, drives him insane.
So back to basics, went to the Sleezbay and bought a service manual for the engine.Guess I will have to buy another manual for the Jeep and another for the Ford Dana driveline......and finally another for Hillbilly mechanic-fabricator applications.
So, my plan is this.
First I will correct the engine and electrical system on the under the hood area to factory specs.
Second I will join the 68 engine with the 86 Jeep wiring.
Yes, I still need to check the alternator I got to see if it truely is working correctly.But, I think in the big picture, the crusty connections are obviously a major contributer to the problem.
Staytuned peeps, I may be a lot of things, but, I am not a quitter.

beepbeeoJEEP

Wahoo,
Got my 1968 Factory manual.
I think I am going to abandon this one wire job,
and convert it back to the original style MOPAR alternator.
One terminal, one FLD tab and the external voltage regulator set-up.
But, before I do that,
I will do a litle more research.
The manual is great , it covers a lot of what I got,
including the 727 Torqueflite tranny.
But before I go to far, I am going to check the wiring situation,
the physical connections and such.
Got my MOPAR hat,
gona leave it on the shelf, for now.
Once I have my engine charging right,
then I will put it on.

beepbeeoJEEP

hello Peeps,
Well, I got my Jeep manual in today.Jimmycrackcorn, was I miffed.
It seems there are many names for many things.Jeep Waggoneer is not always the Jeep(Grand) wagoneer it appears to be. Bottom line is body style "FS". Yep. I get the manual for the smaller version,midsize, "XJ".
Oh well, my bad, got in a rush and didnt check the facts.
Found another very intersting tool for knowledge .Believe it or not-
"You Tube".
Got to see that all what you guys have been telling me is true. The one-wire alternator can work.And to put the positive directly to the battery is correct.Or put it down to the starter, either way will work.Even saw a simple way to check an alternator, put a screwdriver towards the back center of the alternator and the magnetic field should pull it in like a magnet.
Anyway, I guess I am going to flipflop back to getting the one wire to work.Tomorrow I will check the connections and bulkhead bussbar.
Bottom line , just like you guys said, it should be putting out close to 14 volts plus.
Good thing this is my own adventure, I would never make it as a mechanic.
Not yet anyway.

challenger

well good luck and dont worry you will get it right soon and hope we can help you more , keep working on it and you will become a good mechanic at least on your ride , practice make perfect

beepbeeoJEEP

Yep,
11.4 volts.
Thats it,
I gotta take the alternator off and go see if it is ok.Brandnew brandsnew, wouldnt be the first time I got a "new" part that did not work.
Yep, turning wrenches and sweating like a dog. Sweating like a dog, glasses sliding off into the engine, hands being burnt on hot radiator, nosey neighbor kabitzen in my ear, time flying on my day off, dog barking in house because she wants out.My other dog barking because other dog barkin.
Yep, workin on my ride,
it dont get any better then this.
Time to get into a flurry, pulled electric radiator fan,so I could take
7 inch alternator bolt out easier, radiator hose in way, removed radiator hose, anti-freeze poured out all over ahternator.
Well, time for a break.

beepbeeoJEEP

The moral of this story is-
Dont lose your sales receipt.
or
know enuff about what your buying,
before you buy it.
Just so happens I take the alternator in question back to the parts store.
Right off the bat, the guy says, it is not a single wire alternator.
Its a regular two blade alternator. Of course had I really taken a good look at it, I would have noticed that, but,
in my fever, I just went along with the situation.
So, kinda back to the drawing board.
I will go back tomorrow and see if I can get my money back or
credit. .
I am still going to see if a one wire is available,
at the right amp package I want,
or
I will redo the whole system with original specs.
I am going to lean more to original specs,
with that said,
I guess I would need to add a voltage regulator and a starter relay,alternator regulator into the equation.
If I am reading this right-
Positive battery wire to starter relay then fusible link to fusebox.
Fusebox back to alternator batt terminal.
Alternator field wire to FLD side of alternator regulator.
From ignition side of alt/reg to fusebox
in addition to ignition ballast resister with output to coil and fuse box.
Wire from starter relay to starter solenoid.
Wire from pos/bat to starter.
I can see that the one-wire is the simplest action.
Great Ceasers Ghost.
Anyway, it is what it is.

beepbeeoJEEP

Well,
Research and Development.
I guess everyone who has been reading this have their own ideas and explanations,
however, I am going with the flow.
And the flow has left me with no apparent one wire alternator.
Yes, I realize there may be a one wire alternator out there, but,
I am dealing with my parts store and not the google diagnosis process.
Bottom line is I returned the first alternator and got another one.
I will pick it up at 1pm or so, but, I do have some specs,limited as they are for it.
114 amps for 1968 Roadrunner.It specs out for a 440, but, hopefully that will not make a differance which will effect me.
The parts store said I would not need a voltage regulator or a starter relay for this to work. It is internal.
Yeah right.
From the picture it still shows three external stubs, or posts. One is labeled BAT, ok, that is easy enuff, then another is labeled FLD.
(Here we go) and another, I think says GRND.
Sounds like an ordinary alternator.
Although the parts store people say no voltage regulator is required and that the "alternator regulator" is internal, I will wait to I have it in hand to see whats what.
In the spec sheet, it clearly states-
"INSTALLATION ALERT-cHARGING SYSTEM SUSCEPTIBLE TO LOOSE OR CORRODED CONNECTIONS AT VOLTAGE REGULATOR, AMMETER, AND HARNESS CONNECTION AT FIREWALL."
Basically exactly what you guys have already mentioned.
So,
I am off to find the BASICS of wiring this puppy in.
Any basic knowledge on wiring would be appreciated.
For example-
Wire from BAT terminal( on alternator) goes to starter solenoid then on to POSITIVE battery post.This is with ammeter bypass technique.
FLD(on alternator) wire goes to Voltage Regulator(FLD terminal)
GRND (on alternator) goes to GRND on voltage regulator.
From the IGN terminal on Voltage regulator the wire goes to the LEAD WIRE to the coil through a ballast resister.(Also ignition switch connects from BAT wire.)
Does this sound feasible???? Of course this does not configure any load into circuit.Obviously I got to run it through the busbar for internal workings,lights,fans,AC whatever.

beepbeeoJEEP

114 amp P7521
What a munster, took a pickup truck and a crane to get it into my living room.
Hmmmm.
Yep, big sticker on it-
"EXTERNALLY REGULATED ALTERNATOR."
Well,
I think I will just close the hood,
go back to my dayjob,
and wait a while.................time to think this out.

beepbeeoJEEP

So, tomorrow is my day off.
My plan is to try again to make it work.

beepbeeoJEEP

Yep,
Put the new alternator on, first I connected an already there clip to FLD and left GRND clip off.(Classic Bozo dont know what I am doing in the first place).
But, I just wanted to give it a try hoping that some MOPAR Angel would sprinkle " tinkerbell dust" on it and make it all work Ok by,
LUCK.
Well first of all, well, lets just forget about first of all.
Anyway, engine would not crank,spun, but, no ignition.
Hmmm.
Ok, took off the FLD and wanted to see if it would just start, like it did before.
Engine cranked right up, but,
somethin was not right.
Then the grinding noise and smoke started.
Quickly killed ignition and went for a look see.
Yep, new alternator has a fan kinda of gimmick(starshaped) afixed to shaft and pully on alternator.(presumeably to keep armature gimmicks cooler).
However, the rigid fan was not spinning free because it was hitting the bracket assembly.
Hmmm.
Closed the hood, picked up my tools.
Considering having someone who knows to get in there and fix it,
nope,
I will address this again next week, on my day off,
again.
But, next time I will have the correct assembly of parts needed.
#1-Voltage regulator,
I will consult with someone though, to get the basics confirmed on whether I need a starter relay also.
Even on a bad day, it is always fun to work on my Yeep.
And when I finally get past this ordeal,
it will be that much sweeter.