What to do with my 440
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Great White North
Joe -
Short answer, yes. Having an idea about the weight and general use of the car is kinda important when selecting parts.
Depends on how specific you want to get.
The following is just my opinion, so take it FWIW:
For a cruiser and "fun" street machine (let's say 2000 - 4000 average rpm range), milder is usually better and you can "do" whatever you like as long as you know what you're getting yourself into.
For a racer where you want ever last HP or foot-pound of torque, then things get a little more exacting. You're also going to be looking into a higher rpm cam / intake & exhaust, that might sound mean on the street but be a bear to drive - as in "not fun" due to a lousy bottom end or cheap with gas prices.
Some examples:
If plan on opening it up on the highway, 4.88 gears might not be your best option and neither would 4.10s - the 3.55s are great for that, but not so good on a track specific car.
For a heavy B-body you need a lot of low end torque to get moving off the line (or sometimes just start moving) , for a smaller/lighter car like an A-body you might want more top end. The cam and intake selection factors into that, as does stall speed on the converter and rear end ratio.
(Yes, you can lighten the hell out of a big car, but it requires
and time.)
Your check list above sounds like a good B-body street/cruiser. Might want to consider the pipes behind the headers (diameter, x-pipe, type of mufflers, etc) as well as the lifters and rest of valve train that B mentioned.
The last or maybe the first thing to consider is your budget. In the 80's I was all into racing the Charger. These days, it's just too expensive, so it's a little more street-able or getting that way.
BTW - there's a pretty big difference in weight between the Duster/Scamp and a Satellite!
Just hard to make specific recommendations without knowing what you're planning on doing.
Hope that helped or at least got you thinking.
Archer
Short answer, yes. Having an idea about the weight and general use of the car is kinda important when selecting parts.
Depends on how specific you want to get.
The following is just my opinion, so take it FWIW:
For a cruiser and "fun" street machine (let's say 2000 - 4000 average rpm range), milder is usually better and you can "do" whatever you like as long as you know what you're getting yourself into.
For a racer where you want ever last HP or foot-pound of torque, then things get a little more exacting. You're also going to be looking into a higher rpm cam / intake & exhaust, that might sound mean on the street but be a bear to drive - as in "not fun" due to a lousy bottom end or cheap with gas prices.
Some examples:
If plan on opening it up on the highway, 4.88 gears might not be your best option and neither would 4.10s - the 3.55s are great for that, but not so good on a track specific car.
For a heavy B-body you need a lot of low end torque to get moving off the line (or sometimes just start moving) , for a smaller/lighter car like an A-body you might want more top end. The cam and intake selection factors into that, as does stall speed on the converter and rear end ratio.
(Yes, you can lighten the hell out of a big car, but it requires
and time.)Your check list above sounds like a good B-body street/cruiser. Might want to consider the pipes behind the headers (diameter, x-pipe, type of mufflers, etc) as well as the lifters and rest of valve train that B mentioned.
The last or maybe the first thing to consider is your budget. In the 80's I was all into racing the Charger. These days, it's just too expensive, so it's a little more street-able or getting that way.
BTW - there's a pretty big difference in weight between the Duster/Scamp and a Satellite!
Just hard to make specific recommendations without knowing what you're planning on doing.
Hope that helped or at least got you thinking.
Archer
Definitely, I think I will do the other work as I mentioned, and in the mean time start looking into different body types before getting to far into the build on the engine. obviously I don't know much about these cars "yet" but I will start to look at them more closely. I don't know if you've read the thread from the beginning but basically the engine was given to me from a friend and thats how I started. I like learning so I think that now that I'm into this engine I have started something that I feel is fun, challanging and a great way to spend spare time.
Like most people (assuming), I have more time than money so there is no rush. I feel this will be a few year project, considering the fact that I have kids/wife and they need my time as well. But that said, there is no reason that I can't get them involved in the process. It may turn out to be a great homeschooling lesson for them and myself as well. I'm off to a good start with access to knowledgable people like yourself and others, without I would be lost. Luckily I have a mechanical aptitude and I am willing to do a little grunt work and have the tools to do it.
I'm glad I changed my mind about buying heads too. It will be a blast to tear these down and thoroughly go over them with a fine tooth comb. I'm sure I'll have many questions along the way and post many pics. Thanks again, for a while it was getting a little overwhelming with all the options. Once I get a vehicle in the shop that should narrow the selection down. So that said Merry Christmas and thanks for the gift of knowledge.
Cheers,
Joe Welder
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Great White North
Thanks,
Joe
Mopar Lover
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 170
From: Long Island, NY
Joe -
A "3/4 cam" is an old term for 3/4s of a "race cam". (No, it's not a .750" lift!!!). It a generic term and really doesn't mean anything these days - not sure it ever did.
The difference between a vac secondary and a DP (besides the price) is that the former opens the secondaries when the vacuum dictates the necessity, (ie when you need it). It doesn't have a secondary accelerator pump and it's usually has a smoother transition.
The DP doesn't know or care about vacuum or engine needs, it just responds to throttle position. It also gives an added "pump" of gas to the opening secondaries.
That's why the DPs are better suited for the track. With the rest of the carb tuned for the engine/car, there's a bigger charge of air/fuel hitting the engine faster.
Archer
A "3/4 cam" is an old term for 3/4s of a "race cam". (No, it's not a .750" lift!!!). It a generic term and really doesn't mean anything these days - not sure it ever did.
The difference between a vac secondary and a DP (besides the price) is that the former opens the secondaries when the vacuum dictates the necessity, (ie when you need it). It doesn't have a secondary accelerator pump and it's usually has a smoother transition.
The DP doesn't know or care about vacuum or engine needs, it just responds to throttle position. It also gives an added "pump" of gas to the opening secondaries.
That's why the DPs are better suited for the track. With the rest of the carb tuned for the engine/car, there's a bigger charge of air/fuel hitting the engine faster.
Archer
Thread Starter
Mopar Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Great White North
Joe -
A "3/4 cam" is an old term for 3/4s of a "race cam". (No, it's not a .750" lift!!!). It a generic term and really doesn't mean anything these days - not sure it ever did.
The difference between a vac secondary and a DP (besides the price) is that the former opens the secondaries when the vacuum dictates the necessity, (ie when you need it). It doesn't have a secondary accelerator pump and it's usually has a smoother transition.
The DP doesn't know or care about vacuum or engine needs, it just responds to throttle position. It also gives an added "pump" of gas to the opening secondaries.
That's why the DPs are better suited for the track. With the rest of the carb tuned for the engine/car, there's a bigger charge of air/fuel hitting the engine faster.
Archer
A "3/4 cam" is an old term for 3/4s of a "race cam". (No, it's not a .750" lift!!!). It a generic term and really doesn't mean anything these days - not sure it ever did.
The difference between a vac secondary and a DP (besides the price) is that the former opens the secondaries when the vacuum dictates the necessity, (ie when you need it). It doesn't have a secondary accelerator pump and it's usually has a smoother transition.
The DP doesn't know or care about vacuum or engine needs, it just responds to throttle position. It also gives an added "pump" of gas to the opening secondaries.
That's why the DPs are better suited for the track. With the rest of the carb tuned for the engine/car, there's a bigger charge of air/fuel hitting the engine faster.
Archer
That makes sense. I would rather make my decisions on parts based in the understanding of how and why they work the way they do. Do you recommend any books that may be worth while reading on carbs? It'll probably be alot of trial and error hey? Hands on is the best way to learn. I do know a couple of old timer mechanics that will probably be able to help me tune mine up on the install. It sounds like that is one if the more challenging aspects to engine building.
Have you run a 440 with 452's? I was thinking of getting a MP port template kit and having a go at them. Not that I know much about them but is it the flow that's the issue with these heads? Also what would I need to do with the guides to give me a .500 lift if I need to go that much. I phoned the local machine shop and he said something about back cutting guides for a .480 lift?? I know I'll probably have to change the springs for sure. Is it safe to use the rest if my factory valve train? I was definitely planning on a Cam and lifters though. The rebuild book says to check the rods on a piece of glass with a feeler gauge and reverse them on the install. Does that sound right? I haven't mixed the rocker stuff up but I did just put all the push rods into a coffee can unmarked. The rocker/lifter ends are pretty distinguishable. Sorry for the 101 questions. My learning curve is like the rocky mountains right now. Haha.
Joe
Last edited by Newf Wit a 440; Dec 23, 2011 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Forgot to add message. Lol, iphone response had message all mixed
Mopar Lover
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,889
Likes: 170
From: Long Island, NY
Joe -
Most of my knowledge is 30+ years old, and there are plenty of guys with more up to date stuff.
Best I can do is described what worked for me.
There's a lot on on-line stuff on both Holley and Edelbrock carbs. Try U-Tube searches.
Going near a .500" lift and 300 deg duration "may" wreak havoc with your vacuum and you "may" need a vacuum pump for the break booster. Yes, the exact grind and over lap does matter. I'm getting about 10" in gear on mine, which is enough.
The reason for checking the rods on a glass surface is for straightness. Note sure about the reversing thing. As long as the length is correct, the ends the right shape and they are true you should be fine. As for cutting the guides, that has to be up to the machine shop.
Depending on the condition of your valve train, replacing the entire train (lifters, rods, rockers and springs) might be a good idea, Getting them from the same company helps and the only think you might have to worry about is rod length.
I'm using ported 1969 Six-pack heads and TRW pistons on Six-pack rods on my 440 with an advertised 10.85:1 compression and a relatively mild cam. That was enough to break into the high 12 second bracket back in the '80s (in relative street trim - open headers / street tires and tweaked carb/timing).
Archer
Most of my knowledge is 30+ years old, and there are plenty of guys with more up to date stuff.
Best I can do is described what worked for me.
There's a lot on on-line stuff on both Holley and Edelbrock carbs. Try U-Tube searches.
Going near a .500" lift and 300 deg duration "may" wreak havoc with your vacuum and you "may" need a vacuum pump for the break booster. Yes, the exact grind and over lap does matter. I'm getting about 10" in gear on mine, which is enough.
The reason for checking the rods on a glass surface is for straightness. Note sure about the reversing thing. As long as the length is correct, the ends the right shape and they are true you should be fine. As for cutting the guides, that has to be up to the machine shop.
Depending on the condition of your valve train, replacing the entire train (lifters, rods, rockers and springs) might be a good idea, Getting them from the same company helps and the only think you might have to worry about is rod length.
I'm using ported 1969 Six-pack heads and TRW pistons on Six-pack rods on my 440 with an advertised 10.85:1 compression and a relatively mild cam. That was enough to break into the high 12 second bracket back in the '80s (in relative street trim - open headers / street tires and tweaked carb/timing).
Archer
Last edited by Archer; Dec 23, 2011 at 09:41 AM.
Thread Starter
Mopar Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From: Great White North
Were you running 452's on this engine? If so , did you have them machined to reduce the CC's or did you just keep it pretty much stock. I'm hearing .040 is going to give you a chamber of about 80cc. I'm thinking that will change the valve assembly for sure and the intake sides will have to be done which is more $$. I would prefer stock if that can get me in the 375-400hp range. Were those pistons you used a zero deck, domed or dished piston? sorry for the 101 questions I'm trying to do my homework before I make the leap and spend money in places I might regret later. Thanks,
Joe Welder
