'68 Plymouth Valiant Signet, No spark, nothing.
02-13-2008, 10:32 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
'68 Plymouth Valiant Signet, No spark, nothing.
Plymouth Valiant Signet, 4 door, 2.8L Slant 6
Ok I've had this Valiant for about 4 years, between me and my best friend we've had her tuned up, (points and all) replaced the alternator, battery, and cables, starter, starter relay, coil, voltage regulator... Practically the only thing we did not replace involving the electrical system is the wiring itself and the fuse box..
Periodically before it died completely I would drive it fine, engine runs like a champ, but when I'd park and shut it off, upon restart I get almost -nothing-.. I would get interior lights, no sound, deader than a doorknob. And then, miraculously, after a few tries, it would start... Finally one day, she died.. And never started again.. This was about 6 months ago.
I've done quite alot of reading and studying about A bodies and everything seems to point back to the Fusible Link, mine is right on top, and I can tell the heavy insulation had been split- someone used electric tape to try to repair it, but the physical wiring seems to be rusted. I heard that a bad fusible link can give the "nothing"... Especially since the -totally dead- happened all at once.. I have tried 3 different new batteries, but I get literally no spark from the terminals. I suspected a ground, but the condition of the fusible link concerns me. Also, this is not an easily replaced part as far as I understand. Someone told me I can "make" my own fusible link by putting a larger gauge wire in place of the link, and connect it to a smaller gauge, but I'm just not comfortable with that. Any suggestions would be great
UPDATE- My car WILL try to turn over from the relay trick. I can't do it by myself, but I know if I have someone give her some gas while I do it, it would turn over. Still no lights or accessory lights or anything, but she tries to start from the relay.
Ok I've had this Valiant for about 4 years, between me and my best friend we've had her tuned up, (points and all) replaced the alternator, battery, and cables, starter, starter relay, coil, voltage regulator... Practically the only thing we did not replace involving the electrical system is the wiring itself and the fuse box..
Periodically before it died completely I would drive it fine, engine runs like a champ, but when I'd park and shut it off, upon restart I get almost -nothing-.. I would get interior lights, no sound, deader than a doorknob. And then, miraculously, after a few tries, it would start... Finally one day, she died.. And never started again.. This was about 6 months ago.
I've done quite alot of reading and studying about A bodies and everything seems to point back to the Fusible Link, mine is right on top, and I can tell the heavy insulation had been split- someone used electric tape to try to repair it, but the physical wiring seems to be rusted. I heard that a bad fusible link can give the "nothing"... Especially since the -totally dead- happened all at once.. I have tried 3 different new batteries, but I get literally no spark from the terminals. I suspected a ground, but the condition of the fusible link concerns me. Also, this is not an easily replaced part as far as I understand. Someone told me I can "make" my own fusible link by putting a larger gauge wire in place of the link, and connect it to a smaller gauge, but I'm just not comfortable with that. Any suggestions would be great
UPDATE- My car WILL try to turn over from the relay trick. I can't do it by myself, but I know if I have someone give her some gas while I do it, it would turn over. Still no lights or accessory lights or anything, but she tries to start from the relay.
Last edited by Pfhoenix; 02-13-2008 at 11:24 AM. Reason: Tried starting from relay
02-13-2008, 08:31 PM
#2
It is difficult to troubleshoot by remote control. If I was near you, I guarantee you that we could nail down the trouble in short order.
First, you need to (must) get a few very basic troubleshooting aids.
At the very least, go to Radio Shack and get a package of clip leads
Go to an auto supply outfit and at the VERY least, get a 12V test lamp. A much better plan is to not only get a lamp, but an inexpensive multimeter as well. In this day and age, adequate multimeters are VERY cheap, and sold almost anywhere that auto parts are sold.
Now, there are several trouble areas, ESPECIALLY now that your car is so old, rust and corrosion over time takes it's toll. The several trouble spots are (not necessarily in order)
The fusable link(s)
Any main connections on or near the battery
At least two major connections at the "firewall plug"
At least one factory splice taped into the main harness
The ignition switch
The ammeter connections at the back of the dashboard
In your case, you need to simplify your terminology, and state EXACTLY what you have and do not have, and use some common terms.
Start with the following:
Put a good battery in the car, and try to get the starter to crank the engine:
1 Make sure the car is in neutral (park)
2 With a screwdriver, short across the starter relay.
This will show you that the big main battery cables are good and the battery has good connections
Now see what you have for power:
1 Any interior light?
2 Turn on the ignition
Anything, radio, wiper, heater blower?
If not, then you do indeed have a problem with one of the major areas I listed.
Take your test light or meter and make SURE it has a good ground. us your test clip to the block
Probe on each side of your "damaged" fusable link with a good sharp probe, either using the meter or your test lamp
You should find power on both ends, by cutting into the insulation. You should be able to buy replacement fuse links that can be spliced (crimped) onto the wiring Places like NAPA should have or be able to get them
If you don't have a diagram, you should get one, very important. If not, you might just have to untape part of the harness.
Probe the large nut connection on the alternator. This should be hot at all times--not affected by the ignition switch.
Pull the dash out far enough to inspect the ammeter connections. Do this of course with the battery ground removed. When you get the dash out a little ways, hook up the battery, and with the light/meter grounded, probe the ammeter connections. BOTH should have battery voltage at all times. Wiggle them, inspect for any looseness.
Determine which connections in the firewall connector carry the ammeter wires. Probe these and make sure they are hot at all times.
Your problem (at this point) has nothing to do with the fusebox, because the ignition system does not go through the fusebox.
However, if you have power at different places in the fusebox, but the car won't crank or start, this might indicate a problem in the ignition switch, either a loose connector/ corroded, or a bad switch.
Here's an engine compartment diagram I found online:
http://www.valiant.org/electrical-diagrams.html
Some diagrams for a '64, which should be pretty close:
http://kim_spure.tripod.com/wiring-d...-valiant64.htm
First, you need to (must) get a few very basic troubleshooting aids.
At the very least, go to Radio Shack and get a package of clip leads
Go to an auto supply outfit and at the VERY least, get a 12V test lamp. A much better plan is to not only get a lamp, but an inexpensive multimeter as well. In this day and age, adequate multimeters are VERY cheap, and sold almost anywhere that auto parts are sold.
Now, there are several trouble areas, ESPECIALLY now that your car is so old, rust and corrosion over time takes it's toll. The several trouble spots are (not necessarily in order)
The fusable link(s)
Any main connections on or near the battery
At least two major connections at the "firewall plug"
At least one factory splice taped into the main harness
The ignition switch
The ammeter connections at the back of the dashboard
In your case, you need to simplify your terminology, and state EXACTLY what you have and do not have, and use some common terms.
Start with the following:
Put a good battery in the car, and try to get the starter to crank the engine:
1 Make sure the car is in neutral (park)
2 With a screwdriver, short across the starter relay.
This will show you that the big main battery cables are good and the battery has good connections
Now see what you have for power:
1 Any interior light?
2 Turn on the ignition
Anything, radio, wiper, heater blower?
If not, then you do indeed have a problem with one of the major areas I listed.
Take your test light or meter and make SURE it has a good ground. us your test clip to the block
Probe on each side of your "damaged" fusable link with a good sharp probe, either using the meter or your test lamp
You should find power on both ends, by cutting into the insulation. You should be able to buy replacement fuse links that can be spliced (crimped) onto the wiring Places like NAPA should have or be able to get them
If you don't have a diagram, you should get one, very important. If not, you might just have to untape part of the harness.
Probe the large nut connection on the alternator. This should be hot at all times--not affected by the ignition switch.
Pull the dash out far enough to inspect the ammeter connections. Do this of course with the battery ground removed. When you get the dash out a little ways, hook up the battery, and with the light/meter grounded, probe the ammeter connections. BOTH should have battery voltage at all times. Wiggle them, inspect for any looseness.
Determine which connections in the firewall connector carry the ammeter wires. Probe these and make sure they are hot at all times.
Your problem (at this point) has nothing to do with the fusebox, because the ignition system does not go through the fusebox.
However, if you have power at different places in the fusebox, but the car won't crank or start, this might indicate a problem in the ignition switch, either a loose connector/ corroded, or a bad switch.
Here's an engine compartment diagram I found online:
http://www.valiant.org/electrical-diagrams.html
Some diagrams for a '64, which should be pretty close:
http://kim_spure.tripod.com/wiring-d...-valiant64.htm
Last edited by 440roadrunner; 02-13-2008 at 09:42 PM.
02-14-2008, 12:20 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
2.8 slant 
that can't be right can it .
Anyhoo i'd definately say it's your fusible link , wiggle it round & you'll probly find the interior light goes out , if so yep fusible link .
BUT i used to find that if the interior light was on she'd start , when it went out i knew it needed a wiggle .
Another suss area is the connection for the pull out light switch . Unplug it and check for any signs of melting / shorting .
two last things .
Don't foget to check the Hi beam switch mounted on the floor , you don't need much for it to go wrong there & lastly the switch on the Auto , thats if it's an auto , this switch gets loose & when it does she won't start .
Dont be scared of the fusible link , i used to be aswell but got a mate to help me & once it was fixed it was sweet .
Good luck , i hate electrical drama's
that can't be right can it .Anyhoo i'd definately say it's your fusible link , wiggle it round & you'll probly find the interior light goes out , if so yep fusible link .
BUT i used to find that if the interior light was on she'd start , when it went out i knew it needed a wiggle .
Another suss area is the connection for the pull out light switch . Unplug it and check for any signs of melting / shorting .
two last things .
Don't foget to check the Hi beam switch mounted on the floor , you don't need much for it to go wrong there & lastly the switch on the Auto , thats if it's an auto , this switch gets loose & when it does she won't start .
Dont be scared of the fusible link , i used to be aswell but got a mate to help me & once it was fixed it was sweet .
Good luck , i hate electrical drama's
04-03-2008, 10:44 PM
#4
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Posts: n/a
Just run a wire from the positive side of the battery to the battery side of the coil. It will start if your condenser is good and your points open. You must crank the engine of course.
Don't run long so you damage your points with full 12 volts. Now buy a new ballast resistor, the white block with two wires connecting it. Start checking the system for power untill it stops and deal with the component then and there where the power stops.
Don't run long so you damage your points with full 12 volts. Now buy a new ballast resistor, the white block with two wires connecting it. Start checking the system for power untill it stops and deal with the component then and there where the power stops.
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