rcknrolfender79

Hey guys, I'm trying to decide what I'm gonna do with my challenger engine wise, it has the matching numbers 318 in it but its just simply too weak. A car like that needs to run and drive as bad A$$ as she looks lol. I'm trying to decide to either build the crap out of the 318 that is in it or get a 360 and stroke it out. I know the 360 stroked out would get me a ton more torque and ponies. So I'm kind of leading towards doing that cause even though my 318 matches the car it really doesnt help the value of it, infact it would probably increase the value if I put something worth talking about in it. And I would put probably put about the same amount into the 318 build as I would the 360 and come out with ALOT less power. I know you can go up to a 4 inch stroke on the 360 which gives you a 408 stroker. Can you go any further than that? And even if you couldn't go any further than that will any special modifications have to be made for a 4 inch stroke crank?

Also I'm going to hunt down a 4 speed for it or 5 speed if I can find something that will work(any suggestions on the 5 speed are welcomed also), and I want to put a pretty hefty Cam in it, do you have to have a racing clutch in it to support a motor with around 450 to 550 HP and Torque, with a big cam? Or is it just a matter of maintaining RPM enough to keep the motor running to take off? It will remain a street car, and I plan on keeping compression around 10:1 maybe 10.5:1 to run on pump gas.

67 GTX

the largest i have ever heard a 360 stroked to was 410
it might be able to go more, but I am not sure
any more might weaken the block

where are you located?
i talked to a guy that has a 4 speed trans

rcknrolfender79

I am in Tulsa Oklahoma

deadkelly

360 cid is enough displacement to make very good hp .
it comes down to & who you know & what you can do & what parts you already have ie diff & gear box , exhaust ect . & how fast do you want to go & what sort of power you want to make . i see it like this in short give or take .
318 cid affordable 330 - 400 hp , 14.5 -13.5 , $3000 +
360 cid time + money 380 -450 hp , 13.5 - 12.5 , $4500
360 + cid lots of time + research & hunting around hitting hurdles & costs blowing out . 450 - 550 hp , 12.5 - 11.5 , $7000 +
any faster & your making a very big commitment , gonna loose lots of money & it will be a forever on going project .
hahaha i hope this helps .
where abouts do you fall in this ball park area ???

rcknrolfender79

Well I'm probably in that $3,000.00 range maybe a bit more over a little bit of time. But I have located a few different 360's for 100 to 300 a piece and I have located some 408 stroker kits for about 1,500 to 2,000. But of course the doesnt include intake carb and cam. And Anyone have any idea what it cost to have heads ported?
I'm not looking to get a hard core 1/4 mile car just one hell of a street car. A car that you can put a 100 dollar bill on the dash and tell your passenger if they can grab it they can have it lol And watch them try and fail miserably. Just something to blow the stupid kids' doors off that pull up next to me in there little rice rockets trying to race. And the other group of guys that pull up next to you in their bone stock chevy and ford pickups trying to race. Something needs to be done in town that keeps these kids in their place lol

64polara

haha, i know what you talking about. so far i am supposed to race a kids 96' Taurus (haha) and a kids 95'ish silverado. the silverado has a Chevy 350, so i don't know. there a $25 bet on that one haha. neither will ever happen.

the only problem with the ricers is the ones that know what there doing. my friend Justin just bought a DSM. sadly it is not a slow car, and he's getting a bigger turbo. i hate to admit it but it would wip my car easily.

raindance654

Surely a nice ol 440 would be the ticket to decent reliable street HP. Yeah, yeah I know it's extra weight and a little extra work -but so's a stroker.
If it's gotta be a SB, why not build a stout 360 with a little port and pocket work then slip on a small nitrous kit for HP 'emergencies' ................??

1966sportfury

do what i do put $ on the dash and say if u can grab it u can have it. (and just before you mash the petal elbow them in the face)

recently i have heard of 426 ci out of a 360..but i dont know if thats true or not.

deadkelly

yep 426 cid 360 are around . gotta go & screw my bottom end together I'll get back tonight cya all .

Furytom

I would agree with BB idea. I have a 318 with my fury. I had a lot of plans with it. Stroke it, big valves, porting, good compression....
While I was researching what to do I found a lot of the "just get a big block" advise. So I was looking into this. Well with the same investment you really get a lot more without all the stretches you got to do on the small block.
Now I just refresh the small block and put it in my work truck. Just got me a fully machined 440 block prepped for external oil pump. The man I bought it from had also a 400bb sitting around that he tried to get rid of so I grabbed that one as well. Was 200 bucks all together so I figured I cant do much wrong.

deadkelly

what sort of diff have you got now & what ratio & LSD or open center
tranny ??? 904 or 727
exhaust ??? & extractors ??? what size & header size ???
& what carb ???

do you have somebody to build this for you / help you or are you paying ???

machining always cost a bit . I'm having a guess that it would be cheaper over there or you'll get more for ya money .

OK i see this as a best bang for your buck build .
so big block & stroking is out . alloy heads are probably out as well .
so its 318 ( more likely ) or 360 .
hyd cam not best but simple , cheap & will do the job . mopar cam & lifter package 484 lift or 508 lift $200 you'll get springs for $60 - $100
jegs 9 key way timing chain about $70 with torrington bearing there are cheaper 3 key ones also .
kb dome top hyperutetic pistons molly rings ,all bearings , fel-pro gaskets , melling oil pump brass freeze plugs $550
+ other little bits & pieces theres over $1000
your heads will need work also . pocket port / bowl blend & at leased open up the push rod pinch & a good all over clean up .
k lines , larger valves , acid clean ect I'd say $650 -$850 on heads
2500-3000 stall $235 Mancini
well I'd say theres $3000 already with still more to go .
2nd hand Holley street dominator single plane manifold or eddlebrock air gap or rpm air gap manifold & that should nearly do ya .
& thats with your 318 . & carb exhaust & headers shocking how it ads up ay . you'll also need minimum orange box ignition also .

Polaradude

Most folks can do their own porting, it's not that tricky and a stroker kit from 440 Source is well under $3000.00 with the upgrades. Last time I checked crates were just a bit more, like 7 grand more.

deadkelly

i think Indy had a line of cast heads called arrow max or something similar but i only ever seen them advertised as 906/452 so they may only do them in big blocks & they were $899 a pair . sorry i really only look for big block stuff .
we need some feed back from the rcknrollfenderman himself . but I'm trying to plan a build that'll be 330 - 400 hp for under $4000 now thats gonna be Tuff doing . unless he can get some mates rates or do a bit him self . because i get by with a little help from my friends .
how much is machine work over there ?? how much per hr for porting . i seen those eagle sir rods they'd have to be better & cheaper than buying arp rod bolts & resizing stock ones , at the end of the day he's gotta beat some of these Chevy ******* in there ls1's & hes giving away cid & way newer technology , although there newer & safer cars & pick ups will be a bit heavier . I'm kinda thinking lower profile tires on the rear for better rear end ratio , highest stall / flash speed he can afford .

rcknrolfender79

Sorry folks, I've been a tad busy tryin to figure out how much stuff is going to cost me. I used to work at oreilly's and got my best friend a job their. So I can get an employee discount on alot of stuff. But he is off work for the next few days. But I don't think he can get me a discount on any of the aftermarket stuff though. Let me run this by you... Say I stuck with my 318, how far could I safely stroke it out without losing too much dependability? And would it be worth the extra money?

Also I believe it has a 727 in it now, but whenever I get around to switching motors there is no way in hell I'm putting it back together with an automatic. Sorry I'm a clutch and shiftin lovin son of a gun. lol makes my day to really be able to get in tune with my car and no way better to do so than to put a 4 speed in her. Also wouldnt mind putting a 5 speed in her either, if anyone has any input on a 5 speed tranny that would work and I wouldn't have to modify too much with. I actually have an nv3550 5 speed out of my '02 jeep wrangler that has a really good range of gears on it (just don't know how it would do with real strong motor). I think my rear end is 3.23. However I'm not sure if the motor is just weaker than I think it is or if the gears are just really high. Cause when it is dry out just stepping on the gas won't even squeak the tires. If i hold the line lock put it into 1st/low and step on it it will smoke em up pretty quick, but as soon as I shift up (around 4,000 rpms or so) it bogs down quite a bit). However if it is wet out from rain I can't hardly keep it on the road if I try to give it any gas at all, I could break em loose going 45 or 50 if I wanted maybe faster. From a dead stop I would never take off if I gave it any gas at all. But I'm having a little bit of trouble remembering where I put my build sheet at, as soon as I find it I'll get on here and we will figure out everything about it. As far as carb goes I believe it is a 650 edelbrock. And not sure on the intake, it was originally a 2 barrel car. On the headers I'm not sure they were on it when I bought it, I would say somewhere like 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 maybe 1 7/8 but doubtful. And I had my exhaust ran quite a while ago, if I'm not mistaken I think they ran 3 inch exhaust on it... maybe 2 1/2. I'll have to double check. And man to be honest I have no clue what you mean by extractors.... probably sounds stupid comin from a guy wantin to build a motor but ya gotta start somewhere.. lol

deadkelly

extractors are headers just different terminology's .
OK your headers & exhaust will support good power maybe some straight through mufflers to help it flow a bit freer . there cheap as .
650 eddlebrock perfect .
just need a good 2nd hand inlet manifold . a good high rise dual plane or mopar M1 , Holley street dominator ( a oldie but very good alrounder there both single planes btw ) just have a 2nd hand one bead blasted & it'll look like new .
cool that's your bolt on's taken care of . saved some $$$ there
now as for stroking you can use a modified 360 crank & that will put you into the 370 something CID i think . or a 4" stroke will give you 390 CID . BUT this is all extra home work . & the stroker pistons will cost a fair bit more . usually there forged so that will blow costs right out .
BUT check out Keith blacks range they will sometime have popular hyerputectic stroker pistons . that are allot cheaper .
JUST REMEMBER stroking although will give good torque & more CID requires more air flow to make good power . ( hp ) YOU'LL MAKE MORE POWER WITH 318 CID & GOOD WORKED HEADS , than 370 CID with crap flowing stock 318 heads .
318 cyl heads don't flow much air . it's your heads that will make all the difference no matter what CID you use . mind you you don't need to spend $2300 on porting i think $400 will have you covered . maybe something to consider is to pay for just the bowl porting or pocket porting what ever you guy's call it . & you have a go at smoothing out & opening up your windows & runners it's easy & you almost can't fark it . i did say almost . that way it should only cost maybe $130-$200 . " POCKET PORTING " & cam will make the most power of all the things you do .
shop around & make some phone calls concerning your heads it'll save you heaps . who knows you might find some 2nd hand worked cast iron heads that some body has swapped for alloy heads .

i hear you about the manual gear box
just my 2 cents worth . why not leave it in the car for now spend $ 235 on a Mancini racing 2500- 3000 stall & start whooping Chevy's until you have the money for a tremex 5 speed or similar . 4 speed . my brother said the same thing yanked out the bw t35 & the car never ran again . he just got the sh#ts with it . i think do the motor for now & do your box at a later date as more allows .
you'll almost guarantee to win more races with the auto & 3000 stall . yeah yeah some will jump up & down but just my 2 cents i just wanta see it out there beating Chevy's .
as for that spinning in the rain thats Chevy talk
enjoy cya m8 .

rcknrolfender79

What do you mean by a modified 360 crank? How would it have to be modified? And are the heads interchangeable between the 360 and 318? Or how would a set of 340 X heads or J heads suit me? I'm no genius as I have pointed out but I believe 340 and 318 heads are interchangeable arent they?

If a 360 and 318 heads and crank are interchangeable that would save me a ton of money, cause as I said before I have located a few different 360's for around 100 to 300. I could just buy one of those and have the crank and heads taken care off, I think all I would have left after that would be rods, pistons and cam. And of course all my seals bearings and gaskets and what not.

Also a couple of you guys have pointed out that I should just go with a big block. Which I know where a few 440's are for $500.00 But I drive my car every day and want to keep my gas expense to a minimum. The extra weight of a big block would'nt help me much there. Not to mention the extra money I will have to throw down for big block suspension, motor mounts, headers, exhuast etc... If I stick with a small block I shouldn't have to change any of that, I know one motor mount would be different on a 360, don't know about the headers and intake though.

1966sportfury

heads can be swapped. crank no. everything but crank, rods and oilpan...what mpg does your small block get? my 440 in a c body gets 13 mpg. i dodnt think its bad for a big engine in a cruiseship. its a stock rebuilt 375 hp

rcknrolfender79

I havent exactly added it up I would say somewhere between 15 to 20 maybe.... It does pretty decent for a 4 barrel V8. Maybe just a bit more than 15.

1966sportfury

most ppl argue with me on this but you an get better fuel milage with a 4bbl than a 2bbl as long as your not into the secondarys. primarys are smaller on the 4bbl than a 2bbl.

67 GTX

i agree
thats i what i've always heard

rcknrolfender79

I can believe that.

deadkelly

it makes sense to a point . especially on carter or eddlebrock spread bores .

1966sportfury

have you decided what you want to do? one 318 that i build and liked was just a .30 over 318. 273 heads with 360 valves ported and polished i got lucky with the port job and one of the guys saw the heads and called me up and asked if he could port them for me for just the cost of the porting and polishing paper and stones. cost me $100. any how i had a 292 480 cam the total compresion came to 10.2:1 forged pistions. i put that in my c body with 274 gears in the back i know they were high it was dead untill about 2800 then it came to life..my plan was to run 456 gears but i never had the chance to put them in. i think in an e body with 391 gears it would be a fun ride. that engine got around 10 mpg

rcknrolfender79

Not quite yet, been busy with some other things around here, havent had too much time to think about it. I'm kind of leaning towards a 360 with a good cam, and have the heads worked, have it bored .30 over and and 10.5:1 pistons maybe just 10:1. I would have probably just a few hundred more in that set up with quite a bit more power I would imagine. i already have the intake carb and exhaust for it so it shouldn't be too much more than the cost of just building the 318. And I can pick up a 360 really cheap.

1966sportfury

whats realy cheap? sry im not a 360 fan.. around here if you can find it in a certain wrecking yard its yours for $175 no matter if its a 4 cyl. or a 440

rcknrolfender79

Really cheap is $100 to $300. Thats awesome though I would love to have it like that around here but sadly its not if its a small block its not gonna be much but around here their are alot of people who race and everyone takes advantage of the demand for the big blocks, and average going price for a big block around here that is in need of a rebuild is about $500.00 and then when they are built there is no telling what someone will ask for them. Why are you not a fan of the 360?

deadkelly

I've seen 66 say before there just a truck motor . well at the end of the day there's not a lot of big blocks down under but , there some mighty tuff 360's around here . personally i don't care what cid , to me it's use what you can afford . with a iron head I'd try & stay around the 10:1 compression , because fuel isn't gonna get better only worse . um fender man that inlet manifold you have don't look to flash . you'll kinda wanta use a air gap of some sort or high rise manifold . & just becareful about interchanging 318 manifolds with 360 heads or vice versa . i not 100% but just look into that . the main reason I'm thinking using your block is if yours is a good runner now at leased you know it not to bad . if you buy a 360 but don't hear it running or test drive it you don't know what your getting . but if you have the to do it buy all means get a 360 . as you'll gain a bit more compression & torque & with the same amount of head work & cam shaft . you'll do it with less rpm . I'm also wondering weather a 360 magnum engine could be used . do they use roller lifters ? that might be another way of gaining abit more lift as well as hp gain through less friction ? & still maintaining street driveability . ???? these are just ideas . as I'm not real familiar with the small block family . but i have read a bit about the 318 only because i have one . but figured it would cost about the same as a big block so i went big block .

rcknrolfender79

I honestly don't know if they use roller lifters or not. I'm sure I could hunt some down for one though. And I was definately going to check into a roller cam set up for either one.

deadkelly

it will cost ya to much mate .
i thought the late magnums had hyd rollers that why i mentioned it .