Hello, I have a 318 magnum engine 5.2 stroker modified 390 with original heads, I assemble a comp camshafts CCA-20-745-9 with springs Mopar P5249464, I would like to know if can I use: push rods, lifters and rockers original or if I should replace with others,
Today I started the engine for the first time but I feel that does not run so well, you hear a noise / vibration
Thank you, sorry for my language but I write from Italy

 

you need to check the length of those push rods usually when you put a new cam or high lift cam you need longer push rods the rockers should be ok whats the lift on that cam shaft looks like you got 264 270 301 lift
but it says stock springs cannot be used contact the comp cams tech for proper springs
when i got my cam from comp i got the complete kit
the only thing not in the kit was the push rods and they recommended me the proper length push rods

i couldn't copy the whole specs but comp has all the info you need

RPM Range: Valve Lash:
Valve Timing: Duration:
Lobe Separation: Duration @ .050" Lift:
Intake Centerline: Valve Lift:
Lobe Lift:
Valve Timing @ 0.006 Lift
: Valve Lash:
Valve Timing: Duration:
Lobe Separation: Duration @ .050" Lift:
Intake Centerline: Valve Lift:
Lobe Lift:
Valve Timing @ 0.006 Lift:
Exhaust
Closes 18
ATDC
Opens 71
BBDC 110
Intake 264
20 Opens
BTDC
63 Closes
ABDC
Recommended Components
Component Part Number
Rocker Pushrod RP-Kit 1425-KIT
Timing Set 3203 / 2103
Rocker Arms 1425-KIT
Push Rods pg. 278-279
Camshaft Break-In Lube 159
Installation Notes (These notes apply to the above recommended components with the trailing installation note numbers)
Note Description
7 [7] Stock springs cannot be used.
Contact us via email

 

Fabio,

Good cam and spring selection! It will work fine. She is gonna make a lot of torque. I remembered you posted along time ago. Glad you got it done.

You can reuse the rockers, lifters, locks and all the valve train accessories minus the push rods, springs and retainers. The springs you bought are perfect. I am assuming you bought the proper retainer as the conical ones on there wont work. Retainer to guide is fine too. You did your homework.

The rockers are torque to 22 ft lbs and thats it. So preload on the lifter is set by the pushrod length seating .060 into the lifter cup when the rocker is tightened on base circle.

The base circle on the cam is not uniform on all their cams so we cant theoretically get you the number. I have installed that stick a couple times and used at head gasket in the .042 range. Pushrods were 6.95 (stock) to 7.05 range.

When you use the 1425 kit they recommend, they are trying to sell you Chevy rockers. 6.8 inch ford pushrods and arp 5/16 to 3/8 studs with an oldsmobile guide plate repackaged to make the valve train adjustable. You DO NOT need it. It works but not optimal. The stock rockers are plenty strong as I have used them on springs with 400lb rate. The pushrods will bend before those rockers.

Can you have push rods made there if we walk you thru measuring? Its not hard.

And are you using the computer or did you switch to carb? If the former it wont run on that cam and stroke. You will need and SCT tuner to rest the fuel and timing tables.

If you need help sooner rather than later PM me as I wont be on the computer much next couple days...

And STOP apologizing for your English, its plenty good for us on this forum. No one is critical here.

(si mi nessisites manana mandime un mensajes privatis) sorry... I took Italiain many many years ago.....And I didnt do well then either..

 

that's cool PK1

 

This are the specifications of the engine, so the situation is more clear:
Stroker kit: 390 jmsracingengine
crankshafts Forged 4340 steel
main bearings MS540H
rod bearings CB481HN
heads, valves, pushroads and rockers original
heads gasket P4876048
oil pump melling M-72HV
arp heads bolt
power force harmonic dampers 80012
comp camshafts 20-745-9
valve spring P5249464
valve spring retainers P4452032
valve locks mopar
lifters P5249862
timing set comp 2103
mopar intake manifold
edelbrock Throttle Body 1,000cfm
sbm blockhugger headers

fuel rails edelbrock edl-3641
accel fuel injectors acc-150844
torque converters hughes performance 15-25LHD
ecu microtech,ignition coils 4
fuel pump bosch


It has been a long time that work on this project I do not have a lot of experience is my first engine I do,back to my problem of noise / vibration I had the engine running with a 15W40 oil then out of curiosity I changed my oil and put a 5W40 and the problem seems worse, the engine has been on for 30 minutes and the oil pressure has been constant to 5 bar.

ok so if I understand it I have to change the pushrods, how do I measure my? I measure the length from dismantled?

have you been in Italy?

 

Ahhh... PK1 a true Renaisssance Man!

 

comp cams have great selection i love this dual duration cam i have, it does make a lot of torque.
20-418-3, 275-284 ,462-482 duration and lift

 

Me Renaissance? ... I wish... I took the class for a girl... Yes, it was worth it.

That combination of parts is EXCELLENT. The cam is smaller for the 390 but with the 114LSA it spreads rpm band out nicely and will give you good signal strength for the micro tech ecu. Injector are perfect too... If this is your first build you really did do it right. It will pull from idle very nicely and make 18+" of vacuum all day. Set closed loop idle at 760-780 rpm to start. Fast idle open warm up at 1000 rpm.

Do not dismantle anything! You can do this with everything in place except valve covers. You need to purchase a Push Rod Measuring tool. Around 20 dollars US. 6.8-7.5 in size.

1. Run it for 5 minutes. The noise is fine. You wont hurt it.

2. Pull of the passenger side valve cover. If you are using the serp belt set up it is just easier to work on that side.

3. The lifters will be pumped up and they have a check valve in them so the will be solid.

4. Using EOIC (Exhaust Opening / Intake Closing) method place the number two cylinder intake valve on its base circle of the cam. You need to research EOIC method on how to time the valves openings and closings by watching its other cylinder's valve. There is a ton of stuff on here on how that works. PM me if you cant figure it out but Im doing this on the quick so the XO doesnt catch me on the computer.

5. Remove the rocker on the intake valve and then insert the measuring pushrod. Set the measuring pushrod length to 6.900. Use the stock pushrod and subtract .05 if your calipers wont go past 6". You don't need to be exact.

6. Reinstall the rocker and torque it to 22 ft. lbs.

7. Slowly twist the measuring push rod so that it extends and seats in the cup of the rocker.

8. When you feel the pushrod start to rub or just drag the cup of the rocker then STOP.

9. Lock down the nuts on the push rod tool.

10. Remove the rocker and measure the push rod. Record your number.

11. Do the same procedure on the exhaust side. Record your number. Its the same lobe lift on that stick so all should be equal. Ramp rate if different on the ehaust to sit it easier back on the valve but I havent seen one with different base circle. But check exhaust anyway.

The lifters need .060 preload to work in that valve train. I haven't seen failure of components at less but I wont set one up unless it has at least .050-.060. You can not add more pre load to the lifter. .060 is max or you will hang the valves open. It isnt a cup car so don't get in the weeds on this.

Simply take your measurement and add .060.

So if you measure a NEEDED LENGTH of 6.97, you need to order a PR of 7.03.

We never round UP as it could put you over.

www.pushrods.net and order your size in a 5/16 .080 thick oil thru single piece pushrods. Tell them they are for the magnum engine. This is the website for Smith Brothers. They run a good shop and will get you your part. Their product and quality is excellent.

I run 5w/30 in the winter months. 10w/30 in the summer and 15w/40 synthetic in my track / severe duty stuff and I heat the oil to 180 then run a cooler. Not sure of your application? So oil is up to you.

I had too much turkey and fell asleep twice writing this so someone step up and correct a step if I left something out..

Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!!

 

http://www.compperformancegroupstore...y_Code=PSHRDTL

Fabio,

This is a measuring pushrod. I should have included this in the link yesterday. Once you get the Valve train set up, run her.

You will need to be logging AR ratio to dial that ECU. If you see any excessive fuel in the upper end of the rpm limit, sudden drop in power towards the end of your pulls and or excessive ticking of the valves. Post back and we can work the spring pressures for you.

I went down to the shop this am and the last time I did that cam it needed 120lbs closed 315 open MINIMUM. If you have issues like above I'll work the math and we may be able to shim that spring some to add some control. But run her as is as see how it works.

 

ok, I just have a problem this tool riesto not find in Europe, I have to come from the U.S., I find it very convenient to order from Summit Racing and since shipping is quite expensive pushrod can you tell me where I can order, so I save a future Shipping.

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7905-1/overview/

 

This morning my friend Paul has managed to build a tool Pushrod taking reference measurements Comp, next week we do the measurements.

 

Hello pk1, Paolo speaking, i m Fabio s buddy, we are trying to understand what is the correct pushrod lenght by measuring it with the tool i made, i m having issue because when the rocker is out looks like that lifters comes up and is messing up the real lenght...anyway i thought that if the comp cams 20 745 9 has a smaller base circle we will need a longer pushrod, would you confirm that? Thank you in advance

 

every one here is recommending lunati voo doo cams read some of the threads

 

Are you saying the whole lifter comes up or is it the plunger cup coming up when the rocker is loosened?

If it is the plunger that is correct follow PK1 #7+8 then add the preload suggested.

If it is the whole lifter coming up then I'm not understanding your description.

 

mabe you will need a longer push rod...
i contacted comp cams for my push rod length by phone.
gave him some measurements per his questions,
and in the end they did match the adjustable push rods final length.
i did it the same way as per Pk1 7-8
But with that said....
you got the magnum block i thought that the rockers had way more adjustment in them being that they are stud mounted not shaft mounted?
what do you say on this Pk1 am i not correct in the adjustment?

 

Without measuring the lobe when its out you wont be able to tell the base circle from comp.

If you pull the cam I have a couple stock mag 360 cams here and can measure the stock one for you and then run the numbers but I would NEVER recommend doing that and skipping the measurement. Too many variables with gaskets, castings, mil, etc.. Its a good self check to make sure you didnt mess up something but not the way I like to measure.

If you can see the lifter moving then you are 99 percent of the way there cause you have the intake off. Pull the plugs and rotate the motor with a 1.25" socket on the dampner clockwise and watch for the lifter rise up and then sit down. Once it sits give it another 1/4 turn on the dampner or so to make sure its on base circle and then simply extend that measuring tool until it drags slightly.

If Im confusing you try to search for "Net Lash Valve Train Measurements" and use google language translator to make it easier.

 

it help's if you got a dial indicator maybe one from a degree wheel kit,

 

Sorry if I do not understand, but as I said this is my first engine build, we did try to put the valve in the third cylinder is EOIC, but I did try to remove the rocker and putting it back immediately without removing the pushrod and I saw that while I was tightening went to lower the valve, so I think the pushrod has turned up, this is what I can not understand.

The engine was turned on 10 minutes before

 

post pictures to help us see what your seeing

 

You are doing it correctly!

1.mildly warm motor
2. Make sure the camshaft is on base circle. The valve it totally closed for the cylinder you are working on. cylinder 3 is fine. Its easy to work on.
3. Remove the rocker on the valve you are working on and insert the measuring PR with a length on 6.7. Just use a tape measure to do this. Nothing fancy.
4. Install the rocker and torque to 22 ft. lbs. The PR will NOT be seated as it is too short.
5. Open the measuring pushrod slowly when its installed so that it becomes longer and seats in the rocker with just a slight drag. Then lock the jam nuts or tape it. Place your thumb on the rocker tip where it hits the valve stem to take play or wiggle out of the opposite end when doing this.

You may be installing a measuring push rod that is extended to much and causing you some issues.. keep at it.

 

ok next week I'll try and find out

but,
it is normal that only by removing the rocker and remounting it without doing anything else rocker goes to open the valve?
it seems as if the lifter has been raised alone, is this normal?

 

yes , the lifter can pump up / fill with oil , lifters are designed not to bleed down so it can take a while to adjust back

 

ok so how can I do to solve the problem?

 

I think you need a shorter measuring pushrod. Here is a video to visualize the plunger inside the lifter.

http://www.motoetc.com/home/2010/03/...valve-lifters/

 

Here I am, finally I managed to make the measurement:
6.8140 intake
6.8170 exhaust
I enclose a photo

pushrod which do you recommend?
shortly have to make an order from Summit ....
thanks

 

Rounding both numbers DOWN to 6.81 and then adding in .060 will net you 6.87

Do not worry about the difference in exhaust and intake. 21 foot pounds on two different non chased threads and "less than perfect" stamped rocker arms wont allow for precise measurement out as far as you took it. We round down for safety as to much pre load will hang a valve. Slightly under will have zero effect.

You can use ANY 5/16 ball end oil thru push rod. They do NOT need to be hardened as the OEM setup doesn't use guide plates.

 

These can go well?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g6413/overview/


or is it better to take 4130 chromoly?

 

has any one here ever used bb oem rockers on a sb?

 

No

6.87000 Max length

Call or email these guys for a set. Tell them you are using OEM Magnum Valve train and roller lifter with ball ends 5/16 non hardened pushrods. You want oil thru.

http://www.pushrods.net/pushrods.html