ThomasNieman710

Hey I'm replacing the majority of the front end on my 74 dart swinger mainly for increased feel and road handling. It has some real janky tugs coming around.
I know the K bar is a little bent. The A arm is a little bent. (both towards left side) and I'm planning to keep it without power steering, so the more stability I can get in the front is desired.
Now regarding the suspension, I just ordered some new bushings http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy-Suspens...8104R/10002/-1 and figured I would try to find some really nice springs/anything that you guys might recommend as well.
Thank you vary much ^_^
Mopar enthusiest cause those were the golden years

ThomasNieman710

Looking at these shock absorbers

http://www.jegs.com/i/Lakewood/620/4...22#moreDetails

opinions?

TVLynn

You don't want drag shocks. Check out the Green Brick for some ideas.
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/arch...e-lap-pix.html

Kern Dog

Janky tugs?
That is funny.

ThomasNieman710

It's not really a track car I'm going for though, I live right in detroit metro so I'm all about the dream cruise and woodward in the summer. This car needs to get going by mid july for sure and the handling/front end suspension is #1 before the small block goes in.

Kern Dog

Bilstien shocks are a popular upgrade if you wallet is thick enough. When i rebuilt the suspension in my Charger, I went with KYB shocks. They have some haters though. I've been happy with mine though.

TVLynn

For just a cruiser Stock replacement parts are fine. You asked for handling parts originally

ThomasNieman710

I mean, it is for cruising MAINLY. but, I will be taking it to the track when its finished. And I'm kinda the person that replaces somehing little by little getting best parts because I don't want to have to do something more than once. EVER

I'll continue browsing the interweb and as the front continues to get stripped, I'll make my orders! Thanks guys

ThomasNieman710

In all honesty I'm still a little confused on whether I need shock absorbers or what? keep in mind my main two focus, along with increased handling of course, are the ability to hold a small block 318/383 a,d gain a height advantage without strut and ball joint damage. the rear is fine, for now I'm only working the front end
These threads are mad helpful!

TVLynn

Shocks have nothing to do with the ride height. solely the torsion bars, They are adjustable but should be switched to heaver bars

ThomasNieman710

I did turn the torsion bars about 3/4 of an inch, but kind of wanted to go another quarter. That's why I'd like to add the coil overs to take some stress off the torsions? I don't know if I'm right about that, but after putting a small block in I will especially need to give extra support

Kern Dog

The car height is determined by the torsion bars. I don't know of any company that makes a bolt in "coil-over" shock. Even if there were one, it is a terrible idea. The upper shock mount in your car was never designed to support the weight of the car. It is relatively thin sheet metal. It is perfectly adequate for the task it was designed to perform: To support the shock absorber. The shock absorbers job is to slow down the movement of the suspension.

ThomasNieman710

It's not that the torsion bars would be replaced by them; just merely help since i anticipate cranking the torsions to the top then dropping a 318 in wouldnt be good planning. is there anything else that can be done?

TVLynn

There would not be enough room to install coil overs..and would be a big mistake !! WHAT YOU NEED are heaver torsion bars

Kern Dog

I have used the .85 torsion bars in 318 and 360 cars. They are the standard V8 car bars from 67-76. They are a little soft, but they work. The .87 bars are the stock 340 bars. .89 are the 383/440 bars.
My brother in laws 72 Duster currently has .85s, but we will be installing .87s when the car is ready to be aligned for street duty. I just finished the paintwork and buffing. Next up is the interior.
The .87 bars, KYB shocks and fresh bushings make a good street package. I also made a custom front sway bar by modifying a 1.25 bar from a 2wd GM truck. We will be using a 3/4 rear bar. This should result in a very flat cornering condition with some mild understeer to keep the driver safe. The engine is a low mile rebuilt 360 with a 340 cam, a Wieand dual plane and a Holley 600. The car roasts the tires for 100 feet as is, so I expect that whatever understeer the car has could be overcome with some input from the loud pedal.
Moderate torsion bars & spring rates add up to a more comfortable car on the street. RACE cars on smoothe tracks can benefit from stiffer t-bars and smaller sway bars because they don't deal with potholes, expansion joints and other rough surfaces like we see on the street.

ThomasNieman710

This is very helpful! so according to jegs they have a .89 and a .92 torsion bar available. With the price differential being $4 should I go for the heavier one http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...031+4294956780

These are the shocks you speak of? are you placing them all round? http://www.jegs.com/i/KYB/575/KG4509/10002/-1

Yeah i purchased these bushings about a week an a half ago and they should be here by Wednesday (thanks back order) My plan being to dismantle the front to replace bushings, and replace whatever is wrong that I can find in the process from arms, joints, you name it. http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy+Suspens...8104R/10002/-1

I want this old girl to handle like a dream without power steering and have clearance for the big boy 215/70/14 tires on the front.


THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL THE INPUT ON MY POSTS!!!:swinging ::::hail: :drinking::drinking::dri nking::drinking::drinking::drinking::drinking::dri nking:

TVLynn

the 92 will give you a stiff ride better off with the 89 for street. Unless you are road racing. MAKE sure to grease the bushings with the grease they come with

Kern Dog

I had .920 T bars in a car I called the FrankenDuster. It was a 74 that I backdated to look like a 71 Duster 340. That car rode fine with those bars. It also had a 1 1/8" front sway bar and KYB shocks. The link you had showed a strut, not a shock. Maybe they just had a generic picture there instead of the actual one for the application?

I am into cornering much more than drag racing. Some cornering guys claim that these cars ride fine even with 1.14 T bars, but I'd argue against that. I have 1.03s in a 67 Dart. It rides okay, but a jump from there to 1.14s is huge! .92s are a decent choice. A taller sidewall will cushion the ride if the t bars are too harsh. I have 1.0 bars in the 70 Charger. It rides nice and corners like a madman!

ThomasNieman710

Just stop light racing on the occasional friday/saturday night ya know? O yes, I'll grease them up nice and good.
Do you guys have any suggestions for sway bars or control arms? I know once I begin tearing down the front end for the bushing job I will find more things that need some loving and I'm just planning for the worst tbh.

ThomasNieman710

Idk they said shocks in the part listing but I did notice that. So how did the .92 t bars feel? I almost want them to be tough to keep the front end up in the air enough for these tires. (mind you I say it again, I couldn't get any tires that matched and weren't backordered for a damn year. I ended up getting cooper cobras. 215/70/14 front 135/70/15 rear. You think that would cushion well??
What else is on the charger making it handle so well? have you put power steering?

bremereric

If you have the coin then loose the old and install the new. RMS. Mopar god.



ALTERKATION

Kern Dog

Oh crap... NOT that dang AlterKtion stuff again!

Regarding the Charger, I decided to maximize the factory design instead of spending $4500 on a design that is inferior to the factory stuff.
I fabbed up subframe connectors out of 3x3x .120 wall tubing. They are welded in along with front and rear torque boxes. The K member has been fully welded and the steering box mount has been reinforced with added gussets and additional welding. I added a steel plate to the bottoms of the lower control arms to resist deflection. Front end has 1.0 torsion bars and KYB shocks. I modified a GM truck front sway bar to fit the car. The 1.25 size is the largest that can fit through the K member. There are a few vendors that offer a 1.25 bar, but mine cost me less than $75 to buy, modify and install. Front end alignment is 1/2 degree NEG camber, 4 degrees POS caster and 1/8" toe in. Steering box is a rebuilt Firm Feel stage 3 with Fast Ratio pitman and idler arms. This makes the steering ratio a tad under 12 to one, compared to 15.7 to one for regular stock idler and pitman arms. Rear has HD springs with 6 leafs and a 7/8" sway bar, KYB shocks.
I love the way my car handles. I enjoy cornering FAR more than drag racing.

ThomasNieman710

Do you know anything about making repairs to a K member

Kern Dog

Repairs? Yes.
I have converted 5 or 6 slant six k members to the 73-76 V8 style. I have repaired K members with damaged LCA mounts too. Upon the advice of some sharp guys in the hobby, I have welded the seams in several K members to increase their rigidity. I have also added gussets to reinforce the steering box mounts so that when the steering wheel turns, the steering box responds without whipping around side to side. The guys racing the Challengers and Cudas in SCCA used modified K members and reinforced steering box mounts as well.

ThomasNieman710

When I purchased my dart, the previous owner had said he hit a "large hole" on the front left side. He told me it was most likely a tierod issue so I peered under the wheel well and sure enough the tierod was on a last leg. I replaced it but still felt some strange alignment issues, caster/camber, and beyond difficulty to steer on top of no power steering. I started poking around further and I saw that the K member on the left side was pushed forward about 3/8-5/8" to a point where the bored hole behind it on the frame was visible. I have no welding experience (soon to change in the fall) and have an uncle master mechanic, but he is farrr to farrr to drive the dart as is with no means of towing it. A local shop estimated me huge prices and tbh, I'd just rather do this myself to gain the experience. I suppose I should try to photograph and document this the best I could, but I'm wondering how much and how easy new K's are to install. if this front left is salvageable, all these things man. This is the area of the car with which I am most unfamiliar

Thanks mang

ThomasNieman710

Re-visit this. Do you guys have preference between lakewood and kyb gas-a-just shocks? the application would be cruising, light races, and perhaps a trip or two a year to the track. ratios recommended for the front end? Also it needs to supprt a small/big block

Kern Dog

I am a sucker for the factory stuff in upgraded form. Shocks? KYBs are relatively cheap, but a better shock for spirited street cornering is Bilstien. I may get a set one of these days.

ThomasNieman710

Never even heard of this company before, but they have so many different shock applications.. but none that outright fit the dart. I'm not up to par in order to make altercations to the car to fit these

ThomasNieman710

http://www.performanceonline.com/196...ock-Absorbers/

Would these be the right set?

TVLynn

They look correct. for the front IS the K member bent or the frame ? K member is not difficult to replace Just takes time Even easier if the motor is out..

two different pictures shown Click on the detailed image has a different picture