78 power wagon information
01-14-2014, 12:35 PM
#1
78 power wagon information
I bought a 78 powerwagon back in 2000 and sold it and here about a year ago it found its way back to me. Ive done prior restorations but never have been into the dodge trucks so i need some info on how these trucks were built because im getting ready to pull this truck into the garage in a couple months to take it down to bare frame and rebuild/upgrade it. What i do know about the truck is its got a 400 big block, its a shortbed, and its a powerhouse. I was told they came with a 203 transfer case, dana 44 front axle, chrysler 9.5 rear. What's this "hi, hi loc, lo, lo loc" business on the transfer case shifter?
01-15-2014, 09:07 AM
#2
Article that may help:
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-process-...54.html?cat=27
the 203 is a full-time unit, so it’s always in four-wheel drive. Obviously, that wouldn’t work on the street unless slippage from front to back were allowed, so the 203 has a differential.
When in normal cruising, hi is the place. Move the stick down one and you are in 4 lock. Basically, the differential is prevented from being a differential via a sleeve, and the truck is in true four-wheel drive.
N is for neutral, for PTO apps and probably towing, and the lows work just like the highs.
It’s my favorite case, but many people either swap in a part-time kit or a 205. different strokes for different folks, doncha know.
http://voices.yahoo.com/the-process-...54.html?cat=27
the 203 is a full-time unit, so it’s always in four-wheel drive. Obviously, that wouldn’t work on the street unless slippage from front to back were allowed, so the 203 has a differential.
When in normal cruising, hi is the place. Move the stick down one and you are in 4 lock. Basically, the differential is prevented from being a differential via a sleeve, and the truck is in true four-wheel drive.
N is for neutral, for PTO apps and probably towing, and the lows work just like the highs.
It’s my favorite case, but many people either swap in a part-time kit or a 205. different strokes for different folks, doncha know.
01-15-2014, 02:24 PM
#3
Interesting. Ive never dealt with the 203. The last build had a 208. Prior to that we didnt mess with the transmission or transfer case, though looking back on it we probably should have since heat was the demise of that jeep tranny. Anyway, i went out and stuck my head underneath the front end and found a dana 30 front. Was this a leftover jeep part or something different? I was really hoping it was a dana 44 solid so i could slap in a set of Mosers and be done. This truck is going to wind up with either 36 boggers or 37 humvee tires so a dana 30 is not going to work for me. Why would they stick a donut ring geared dana 30 in a big block truck? This makes absolutely no sense. Im really trying to figure out what makes this power wagon a special truck. So far this one is looking pretty wimpy and expensive to fix all the crap Chrysler fudged on to make this a real off road monster.
01-15-2014, 06:21 PM
#5
No. There are always slight differences in tires. "Conventional" that is older 4x's before the full time stuff were "hard geared" (same as locked in these 203s) front to rear.
Even something like a Toyota Landcruiser (FJ-40) which has exactly the same gears front / rear, there's ALWAYS enough difference in tire wear to bind up the thing on pavement. Sometimes, if it's wet, etc, you can easily get it in / out of 4 wheel drive, but often it will bind. You can feel this by letting it roll to a stop. You can feel it bind up and stop
This gets worse in some vehicles which actually have DIFFERENT gearing front/ rear. My friend's old Chev K20 had a 44 series 4.10 in front, Chev 411 in rear. If you have a Dodge 8 3/4, that's 3.55 in rear, 3.54 Spicer in front
The full time transfer is essentially a differential just like in a rear axle. Some are limited slip by some means or another
HERE is a true, sad story
When the CJ (I want to say CJ-7?) first came out with full time, some friends of my friends came up from Moses Hole, a very long drive from here
We were "playing" on a big sandy area, and there were some short sandy hills we were playing on.
The CJ owner went roarin' up this hill and here's where "an instant in time" caused a LOT of trouble
Bear in mind that a differential, with one wheel jacked up, will turn the jacked wheel TWICE what it normally would turn with both wheels going.
So he goes stormin' up this hill, and got the front end WAY up in the air, but not enough HP / traction to go over the hill. So the rear axle is "sitting there" barely moving, with all the weight of the Jeep straight down on the rear.
This caused the FRONT AXLE as an assembly to spin at TWICE what it should be, as the rear was essentially STOPPED. All the HP was being forced to slip through the transfer and turn the front end.
In an instant, he came down on one tire, and instantaneously, THAT one tire tired to stop, and THAT tried to start the other tire going at FOUR TIMES what should have been.
This of course all happened in a blink. Ka--ka--ka WHAM. Destroyed front axle, damaged drive shaft, and a destroyed transfer case.
Then we had to round up a way to get the mess back home, AND
the Jeep dealer said, "warrantee? we don' need no steenkeeen warrantee!!!!"
A "smart" Jeeper soon learns to bump the rig in loose traction to get the thing in/ out of 4x. This is much easier with a stick than an automatic, because even in neutral, the damn thing tries to drive forward just enough to put pressure on the gearing.
(I actually ran a Jeep "straight through" transfer in my old Mopar powered FJ-40. It saw a 360, 340, and 318 in it's abused lifetime.)
Even something like a Toyota Landcruiser (FJ-40) which has exactly the same gears front / rear, there's ALWAYS enough difference in tire wear to bind up the thing on pavement. Sometimes, if it's wet, etc, you can easily get it in / out of 4 wheel drive, but often it will bind. You can feel this by letting it roll to a stop. You can feel it bind up and stop
This gets worse in some vehicles which actually have DIFFERENT gearing front/ rear. My friend's old Chev K20 had a 44 series 4.10 in front, Chev 411 in rear. If you have a Dodge 8 3/4, that's 3.55 in rear, 3.54 Spicer in front
The full time transfer is essentially a differential just like in a rear axle. Some are limited slip by some means or another
HERE is a true, sad story
When the CJ (I want to say CJ-7?) first came out with full time, some friends of my friends came up from Moses Hole, a very long drive from here
We were "playing" on a big sandy area, and there were some short sandy hills we were playing on.
The CJ owner went roarin' up this hill and here's where "an instant in time" caused a LOT of trouble
Bear in mind that a differential, with one wheel jacked up, will turn the jacked wheel TWICE what it normally would turn with both wheels going.
So he goes stormin' up this hill, and got the front end WAY up in the air, but not enough HP / traction to go over the hill. So the rear axle is "sitting there" barely moving, with all the weight of the Jeep straight down on the rear.
This caused the FRONT AXLE as an assembly to spin at TWICE what it should be, as the rear was essentially STOPPED. All the HP was being forced to slip through the transfer and turn the front end.
In an instant, he came down on one tire, and instantaneously, THAT one tire tired to stop, and THAT tried to start the other tire going at FOUR TIMES what should have been.
This of course all happened in a blink. Ka--ka--ka WHAM. Destroyed front axle, damaged drive shaft, and a destroyed transfer case.
Then we had to round up a way to get the mess back home, AND
the Jeep dealer said, "warrantee? we don' need no steenkeeen warrantee!!!!"
A "smart" Jeeper soon learns to bump the rig in loose traction to get the thing in/ out of 4x. This is much easier with a stick than an automatic, because even in neutral, the damn thing tries to drive forward just enough to put pressure on the gearing.
(I actually ran a Jeep "straight through" transfer in my old Mopar powered FJ-40. It saw a 360, 340, and 318 in it's abused lifetime.)
Last edited by 440roadrunner; 01-15-2014 at 06:25 PM.
01-16-2014, 09:41 AM
#6
REAL odd they put a 30 front end under your rig. Does it even have the bigger 760 joints? I know for a fact no 30 ever came under one stock. You’d for sure be much better off with a 44--maaaaaaaaaan, that sucks!
01-17-2014, 08:56 PM
#8
Ok, so upon further review, its not a dana at all. Its a Chrysler 8 3/8" 10 bolt.(as it turns out i should've been looking at the size and shape of the cover instead of the arrangement of the bolts)
01-21-2014, 02:28 PM
#11
ok, so i finally got a chance to go out and take some more pics of the truck where she sits today. Its going to be going in the garage that its sitting next to right now as soon as i get some stuff situated with my trailers(i own a trailer park so i have maintenance materials everywhere) My plan with this truck is to strip it to bare frame and sandblast and recoat the frame, run all new updated lines and wiring, rebuild or possibly upgrade the axles with lockers, rebuild the 400 and give it a little stumble in its rumble, the body is still way up in the air about what treatment its getting because there isnt a straight body panel on the truck so it may get a steel flatbed, but im thinking sour apple green with matte baldwin stripes. Snorkel kit, twin stacks, 36" boggers or 37" humvee tires, interior side will be buckets, but havent decided whether i want 5 point harness racing seats or not. Then once its all done a 1 1/2 chromoly tube exocage.
01-21-2014, 06:39 PM
#13
I don't know about in no time. This will be a time intensive build for sure. I don't have the tv show budget, but like the old saying goes, "anything worth doing is worth doing right. I'm mainly having a moral dilemma about the axles right now. The truck is all factory original in the powertrain as far as i know so far and i have a real problem with breaking up a NOM vehicle, but I'm unsure about the stability and whether it will take the abuse I'm going to throw at it. I don't believe in building a 4wd to drive around for looks. I do wheel and this truck will see trails in the woods.
01-21-2014, 08:39 PM
#14
Mopar Lover
Well...When you break those diff's.... Then you know it's time to move up....
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/77...ilitary-axles/
If you need something in the Big Boy Department....
We Had good luck with a 1979 Dodge W200 4X4 with a 440 A.T. 727, and a pair of Dana's Diffs... We did a lot of logging with that truck. Went many places we had no business going. That truck was in the body shop all the time getting it's face put back on... But it always came home under it's own power pulling a trailer full of timber to split... I cant remember how many times I cleaned out my drawers, But that old man said that Dodge truck was the baddest thing on the planet, and made more money than all his Chevy and Fords put together...
But if you need some parts help.... Ring up Randy's...
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/randy...mcKhvQF9xuBdnQ
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/77...ilitary-axles/
If you need something in the Big Boy Department....
We Had good luck with a 1979 Dodge W200 4X4 with a 440 A.T. 727, and a pair of Dana's Diffs... We did a lot of logging with that truck. Went many places we had no business going. That truck was in the body shop all the time getting it's face put back on... But it always came home under it's own power pulling a trailer full of timber to split... I cant remember how many times I cleaned out my drawers, But that old man said that Dodge truck was the baddest thing on the planet, and made more money than all his Chevy and Fords put together...
But if you need some parts help.... Ring up Randy's...
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/randy...mcKhvQF9xuBdnQ
Last edited by RacerHog; 01-21-2014 at 09:08 PM.
01-22-2014, 05:11 PM
#15
I just might have to do that, thank you. I'm still searching for body parts. A guy I know of in Tennessee has Dana 60s out of super duty trucks for $500 each but I have to drive to Tennessee to get it from Indiana. Has anyone ever line bored/turned a crank down to stuff a 440 crank into a 400 block?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
