Commando

Ok, so some of you know I broke a stud in my passenger's side stock head on my 1977 440, and it's going to cost me $100 to get it removed and fixed and a machine shop. While I have the heads out I figured I would have them machined get the valves done, and that'll cost $500.

So here's my question, do I just pull the heads off and get the work done or buy the complimentary Edelbrock heads for about $1280 new? Its an additional $680, but I can sell the old heads and lessen the cost, is it worth it?

The head part number is 60929, Chamber size 84cc, intake port size 210cc, valve size (in/ex) 2.14"/1.81".

I really should have bought the whole kit but I didn't think I was going to replace the heads. I also have Edelbrock: cam 2192, Timing Chain 7804, Intake manifold 2191, and 600 cfm carb 14064. All the parts recommended by Edelbrock.

I also just got the aluminum water pump and housing from 440 source. I have headers, and Accel's recommended distributor and coil.

I think that's all the info for my engine, if there is something else I may have missed let me know, as I am really unsure of what to do. Also how do I find out what specs I will get out of the engine like compression and hp?

BuckNeccid

Check out 440 source. They have aluminum heads, pretty well a match for the 906 heads, with a few upgrades. Ready to bolt on for like $899. I have a set on the GTX, and they seem to work out well, but I've not fired it yet. Gonna be awhile before I do, unless I'm super lucky this week on vacation[IMG]ftp://members.aol.com/buckneccid/heads[/IMG]

78D200

whats the vehicle and what are you using it for? if its for stripe and fun then I would go with the alum heads. if its a daily driver then i'd stay with the boat anchors.

Commando

The 440 will be going into my Cordoba, it is not a daily driver, something fun to drive around once in awhile.

I will check out 440 source, but the prices I mentioned below are the cost for a big parts store to buy (which my friend owns), look them up you'll see they are about $200 less then what you'll find.

78D200

i vote for alum heads. i rememeber seeing a place in mopar power mag a few years back that would rework new alum heads to biuld a good amount of power. of course i don't remember the name now so that does you no good i guess.

Commando

I am not exactly sure what I was getting for $500, I assumed new valves and seats, and perhaps they'd clean it up if it needed it.

78D200

for $500 you should be getting everything new including waterplugs and some paint. I think I paid $260 to have both heads rebuilt using the old valves, since they were in great shape, new seals, springs, waterpugs and had them cleaned.

ef8340

im planning on aluminum heads when i get the xtra money for mine i have 340 6-pack heads but after i get all the stuff done at the machine shop too them i would be right at the price of the eldebrock heads but mopar performance is also offering a aluminum head aswell just a little bit more you know the name thing

Commando

It doesn't need paint, I already took care of that, but I think I am just going to go with the Edelbrock aluminum heads. Some of the other cylinder heads are a little more performance than I need, and I will then have to replace the carb and may need to do some other stuff as well.

challenger

go with the aluminum heads if you have the xtra money since you are upgrading anyway and with the aluminum heads the heat transfer is much better in my book and by the way how was the 440 source water pump and housing ? i bought mine from another supplier and was a great investment

rr69half6bbl

Just a reminder the edl. heads have the angled plug ports, check them to make sure that this doesnt interfere with the headers you have, and then the plug wires, you may have to buy a new boot kit to go with the heads to stay away from the headers. A buddy used the edl. heads on a muscle motors build he had done, 440. he loves them, they make great power, and cut alot of weight, he had to run a bigger alum. rad though to help keep them cool.he ran a 524 lift roller cam, and an auto. w/ stahl and man. valve body. He hates the headers though. he got the tti`s. they work great , but said there just isnt any room the pass. down tube is less then 2 inches from the trans pan. the driv. sid ecomes down and over the side of the trans over the shift and kick down lever, so you can hardley get to it to hook it up or djust it. wishes now hed gone with a set of stock high flows and ran the 3 " exhaust. its not a dailey driver ither

Commando

Challenger, got the water pump housing, pump and neck from 440 source, I am very pleased with it, but there is some crap inside that needed a little persuasion with a pair of pliers to yank out. I found that they seemed to be one of the cheapest housings in aluminum with a pass side inlet.

rr69half6bbl, are just the plug ports angled, its hard to tell from the pics, as I couldn't tell if the exhaust ports were too. I bought summit brand headers they work well, but the powder coat guy F'd me, put wrong temp coating on them, so I have to redo them, I will probably use fireplace paint so it cures itself.

Are the ports angled upward? As without looking at it I may be able to snake them up, I have super high temp wires with the extra 2000 deg sheathing over them, only had to burn through two sets of wires before finding that great stuff.

rr69half6bbl

Yes just the plug angles are changed. the ports are the same. they point out to the rear of the head at an angle.close to a 45degree. im not up on the reasoning, something to do with the new angle creating a better burn for the cylinder mix.I think that it also has something to do with the flow pattern into and out of the cylinder as well. during the cycle.it alows it to flow smoother, then the stock plug angl and location. im sorry to say but the truth is that our stock type wedge heads do not flow as good as a big block chev head.bigger valves and port work make up for some of it, but not enough.

DUST360

alumium all the way, saves heat and weight. edelbrock heads ive had great luck with

Commando

Angled to the rear, that sounds like fun with the wiring, up or down would be too easy.

Dust360, what did you put the heads in? What other work did you do, as I think I have touched almost everything on the engine outside the block, besides the cam.

Not sure if I should start another topic or not but a few people keep telling me to get a stall converter. Do I need to change the stock torque converter for my application, or are there other benefits that I would get?

BuckNeccid

If you're thinking of a stall convertor, grab something like the Mr Gasket Desktop Dyno. Plug in all the info on the mods you've done to your engine and then look at the HP/ Torque curves. You may benefit from going to like a 2200 rpm stall, but your gas mileage will suffer some from it. The best thing is that you can taylor your convertor stall speed to where your best torque would be, and have a harder start from a stop. It could also cure any hesitation you might have getting started.

Commando

That looks like a good tool, when I searched for it I found a whole bunch of people saying its on Kazzaa but that was from 5 years ago will, see if I can find it later.

Commando

I just used the desktop dyno 2003, it is a pretty good tool, but I can only fill in so much data with only so many options/ technical info of the parts. I think there is a 2008 version, but I can't find too much info about it.

Commando

Doc, I can send it to you, if you know every little detail it asks, I think it will be fairly accurate.

BuckNeccid

The one I use is from about '98, and it seems within the ball park. I've used it for a pile of engines, and it doesn't seem inflated. Just guessing, I'd say they've assembled a collection of runs from Dynos, then average them out and use that as what an engine should do. I wouldn't use it as gospel, but it's been really helpful choosing convertors, and it's a nice WOW factor for a lot of the racers who have Mattell on the bottom of their cars. the comment I've gotten from most of the people who are building an engine in their mind has been " I thought it would have more power than that"

Commando

I think I may have screwed something up somewhere, as when I put the numbers from the dyno into the drag program, it says I can get up to 130 miles per hour in the quarter. Which seems a little high to me, so I am going to find out if I can get better stats from Edelbrock for the parts I have.

BuckNeccid

Doc, it has provisions to to allow changes for head flow, port size, cam size & duration, exhaust size and thru mufflers or not, etc. There are a lot of variables for the program, Nothing for ring seal tho, I guess they assume 90-100% efficiency. It's NOT going to be as accurate as putting your engine on a Dyno, but it's a nice tool/toy to "Build" engines on and see what changes you plan will have as an overall effect. If you want, send me an e-mail and I'll send over the one I have to play with. Once again, the one I Have is WAY old, and there have been many updates to them, but as a guideline, it's not too bad

Commando

I have the desktop dyno 2003 and desktop dragster 2003, if you want it send me a pm with your e-mail and I'll send it along.

I am going to see if I can find the cam guide and a newer version later today.

Commando

Still not sure if I am going to get a stall converter or not, however I found a steel crank for $130 shipped on eBay, so I will be breaking the whole thing down, so if anyone else has any suggestions to me for things to do I am still listening.

Also a piece of advice stay away from ram tools engine stands, I picked one up yesterday and put my engine on it today and it is supposed to hold 1250 lbs but the frame still bent.

BuckNeccid

Balance it... if you dont already have the pistons mounted, mate them to rods and pins so they all come close to the same weight. If they are already mounted, find the lightest one, then weigh each and remove enough weight from the big end to bring them all to the same weight. A gram here and a gram there and you could have a much smoother running engine. You can get some postal scales for a few bucks, and you'd be surprised at just how much it helps.

Commando

Sounds good, I haven't gotten it yet, but probably won't do anything for a few weeks as I am busier than ever.