1963 New Yorker possible project
03-17-2013, 11:26 AM
#1
1963 New Yorker possible project
Hi. (And sigh, as I've tried to post this twice and my browser is logging me out. So this time I'll keep this short.)
I looked at a 1963 New Yorker in Tulsa yesterday, one the guy has been trying to sell for some time and the price has plummeted from $2,500 to $900 and counting. Upon seeing it, I can tell why. She's rustier than he lets on in ads or conversation (most of it visible only underneath and I fear compromising the frame at the rear particularly), and while the 413 sounded like a brand new car, she was dripping a weak-chocolate-milk-tinted water underneath from a source I wouldn't be able to identify without a lift. He acted surprised at the fluid, but I have a hunch he suspects (or knows) it's a cracked block.
HOWEVER, I've read in a couple of places that a more likely cause of the leak -- and one much cheaper and easier to fix -- could be the freeze plugs. And though the pics I have (more than 60 of them at Photobucket) show lots of rust in the left side and underneath, she didn't RIDE like a car that was about to crack in half, or drop her back bumper, and he's throwing in the new floor pans he bought for the front, where right now you could pull a Fred Flintstone at a corner if you're not careful.
The most prudent course of action would be to run away. But I sort of fell in love with her online (like a mail-order Russian bride?) and am not convinced yet that it can't be had for a price that I could justify, especially if I can get it on a rack and track that leak to a more reasonable fix.
Here's a "good" picture of her:
And, looking sort of like James Cameron took this pic at the wreck of the Titanic, one glimpse of the "bad:"
And again the link to Photobucket.
Opinions from you faithful Mopar people eagerly solicited.
I looked at a 1963 New Yorker in Tulsa yesterday, one the guy has been trying to sell for some time and the price has plummeted from $2,500 to $900 and counting. Upon seeing it, I can tell why. She's rustier than he lets on in ads or conversation (most of it visible only underneath and I fear compromising the frame at the rear particularly), and while the 413 sounded like a brand new car, she was dripping a weak-chocolate-milk-tinted water underneath from a source I wouldn't be able to identify without a lift. He acted surprised at the fluid, but I have a hunch he suspects (or knows) it's a cracked block.
HOWEVER, I've read in a couple of places that a more likely cause of the leak -- and one much cheaper and easier to fix -- could be the freeze plugs. And though the pics I have (more than 60 of them at Photobucket) show lots of rust in the left side and underneath, she didn't RIDE like a car that was about to crack in half, or drop her back bumper, and he's throwing in the new floor pans he bought for the front, where right now you could pull a Fred Flintstone at a corner if you're not careful.
The most prudent course of action would be to run away. But I sort of fell in love with her online (like a mail-order Russian bride?) and am not convinced yet that it can't be had for a price that I could justify, especially if I can get it on a rack and track that leak to a more reasonable fix.
Here's a "good" picture of her:
And, looking sort of like James Cameron took this pic at the wreck of the Titanic, one glimpse of the "bad:"
And again the link to Photobucket.
Opinions from you faithful Mopar people eagerly solicited.
03-17-2013, 12:36 PM
#2
this would be the car that has the almost square steering wheel and the grab handle, in chrome, on the dash on the passenger side.
I know someone that has one restored sorta. The paint color is actually not the original color but one that is close and looks nicer.
Areas welded on the car inclued the bottom of both front fenders, rear of car at bottom front of wheel well, rear outside is starting to pop but was solid for years. Floors were good when he got the car so they havent been replaced. They put on about 1500 miles a year going back and forth to cars shows. Sometimes three times that.
Has a 361 bigblock in it 2 barrel push button auto. Runs great and rides pretty good. even better after we removed one leaf in the back. Trailer towing package. A common story about that is he drove home with a full engine in the trunk of the car, Block, crank and pistons in boxes, the six pack intake and carbs in another and block was wrapped in plastic. He really did and the car barely moved in the rear hence the removal of one leaf.
He also has something like 4 or 5 parts cars for these.
I know someone that has one restored sorta. The paint color is actually not the original color but one that is close and looks nicer.
Areas welded on the car inclued the bottom of both front fenders, rear of car at bottom front of wheel well, rear outside is starting to pop but was solid for years. Floors were good when he got the car so they havent been replaced. They put on about 1500 miles a year going back and forth to cars shows. Sometimes three times that.
Has a 361 bigblock in it 2 barrel push button auto. Runs great and rides pretty good. even better after we removed one leaf in the back. Trailer towing package. A common story about that is he drove home with a full engine in the trunk of the car, Block, crank and pistons in boxes, the six pack intake and carbs in another and block was wrapped in plastic. He really did and the car barely moved in the rear hence the removal of one leaf.
He also has something like 4 or 5 parts cars for these.
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Glenn Craven (03-17-2013)
03-17-2013, 01:16 PM
#3
jacilynn_s, thanks for the reply.
This one has chrome "oh-s***" bars on either side of the driver's seat back, as well, for rear seat passengers. And yes, the squarish wheel (the oddness of which attracts me), push-button trans (which seemed to shift very well), power seat (but not power windows), etc.
I'd sure like to figure out where the leak is coming from. If it's freeze plugs and not a block crack the engine might be fine. And it might be worth negotiating on even if the rust is alarming. ... I do like the notion of that 413.
This one has chrome "oh-s***" bars on either side of the driver's seat back, as well, for rear seat passengers. And yes, the squarish wheel (the oddness of which attracts me), push-button trans (which seemed to shift very well), power seat (but not power windows), etc.
I'd sure like to figure out where the leak is coming from. If it's freeze plugs and not a block crack the engine might be fine. And it might be worth negotiating on even if the rust is alarming. ... I do like the notion of that 413.
03-17-2013, 06:22 PM
#4
leaking water pump from the looks of it in the pictures. missing the aircleaner and someone has played with the carb for sure as the fuel line is screwed. The radiator in this car is rare and correct for the car.
The rust looks pretty normal to me not too bad even with the fiberglass butcher job someone did to it. It's repairable. The underside will need quite a bit of work and the floors are rotten from sitting. The rear of the rocker panels on this model is normal believe it or not. There is a plate that goes behind hte rear bumper along the ends that is the reason for the rust as all the road crud build up in it. A good bumper shop can repair this and then do the 3 coat process of copper nickle chrome to make it look like it did new. Might as well get the front done at the same time so they match.
The rust repair itself is going to be time consuming and require someone who knows how to fabricate pieces, weld them into place, cutting out the old properly, and giving attention to detail when fabricating so the replacement look original. I do this but somehow I don't think you want to come all the way to canada just for this.
The rust looks pretty normal to me not too bad even with the fiberglass butcher job someone did to it. It's repairable. The underside will need quite a bit of work and the floors are rotten from sitting. The rear of the rocker panels on this model is normal believe it or not. There is a plate that goes behind hte rear bumper along the ends that is the reason for the rust as all the road crud build up in it. A good bumper shop can repair this and then do the 3 coat process of copper nickle chrome to make it look like it did new. Might as well get the front done at the same time so they match.
The rust repair itself is going to be time consuming and require someone who knows how to fabricate pieces, weld them into place, cutting out the old properly, and giving attention to detail when fabricating so the replacement look original. I do this but somehow I don't think you want to come all the way to canada just for this.
03-17-2013, 10:50 PM
#5
Moparted: Obviously you're right if it's a serious engine problem. If it's a fallen-out freeze plug or the water pump (which the retired mechanic who used to own one said is a really cheap and easy fix on this car) then that wouldn't bug me much at all other than the need to bring a trailer instead of driving the car home 70 miles.
jacilynn_s: Again thanks for your reply. I was really bothered by the rust and clearly it would be a time-consuming and expensive repair. But knowing it isn't necessarily fatal is good information. ... As for sending it to Canada for the work, I suppose in the resto business, such a thing wouldn't be unprecedented.
Great to know about the radiator. I wouldn't have known that without an expert telling me. Since it has the Edelbrock air cleaner I sort of assumed there's an Edelbrock carb underneath, but didn't ask. ... The last owner before this guy was apparently a motorcycle shop mechanic (the seller is a bike freak, too) who supposedly drove it 60 miles round-trip for work every day for a year or two before selling it.
I really appreciate all the comments and will let you all know where this goes. ... The guy actually left me with his car saying he had somewhere else to be, but I could "take as many pictures as (I) like; it's unlocked." So I think he's aware that I'm not clueless about its rough condition and am disinclined to pay much for the car and would rather find an easier mark. But he's been trying to sell it for a good while now and it's the only thing left at the house he's moved out of, so a call this week to see just how badly he needs rid of that thing might not be a poor idea.
Any comments on what a fair price would be, provided the engine fix is a simple and comparatively cheap one?
jacilynn_s: Again thanks for your reply. I was really bothered by the rust and clearly it would be a time-consuming and expensive repair. But knowing it isn't necessarily fatal is good information. ... As for sending it to Canada for the work, I suppose in the resto business, such a thing wouldn't be unprecedented.
Great to know about the radiator. I wouldn't have known that without an expert telling me. Since it has the Edelbrock air cleaner I sort of assumed there's an Edelbrock carb underneath, but didn't ask. ... The last owner before this guy was apparently a motorcycle shop mechanic (the seller is a bike freak, too) who supposedly drove it 60 miles round-trip for work every day for a year or two before selling it.
I really appreciate all the comments and will let you all know where this goes. ... The guy actually left me with his car saying he had somewhere else to be, but I could "take as many pictures as (I) like; it's unlocked." So I think he's aware that I'm not clueless about its rough condition and am disinclined to pay much for the car and would rather find an easier mark. But he's been trying to sell it for a good while now and it's the only thing left at the house he's moved out of, so a call this week to see just how badly he needs rid of that thing might not be a poor idea.
Any comments on what a fair price would be, provided the engine fix is a simple and comparatively cheap one?
03-18-2013, 05:14 AM
#6
Mopar Lover
Welcome to the forum.... I'll let others help you with the value.... I always buy high and sell cheap. Be sure to check out the Mopar of the Month contest.....
03-18-2013, 05:53 AM
#7
03-18-2013, 05:54 AM
#8
Mopar Fanatic
I wouldn't be as concerned about the fact it leaks as the color of the leak. Chocolate milk tinted water sounds like a sure-nuff sign of oil and water mixing.
03-18-2013, 09:16 AM
#10
Thanks!
And Moparod, on the chocolate-milky color of the leak, wherever the water is dripping from, it does have to dribble down over some pretty greasy and dirty parts of the lower engine and suspension. The owner says he replaced the valve cover gaskets and cleaned the top of the engine, but didn't do anything below, and there's a good bit of oil residue on the bottom half of the block and all the steering parts beneath.
BUT, oil is the first thing I thought, too. Very little viscosity to the fluid, though. Quite watery with just a little slickness to it when I rubbed my fingers together.
I did dip some up from the puddle into a clean plastic container after the guy left the scene, though. May try to run it past a mechanic here in town to see what he thinks of it.
And Moparod, on the chocolate-milky color of the leak, wherever the water is dripping from, it does have to dribble down over some pretty greasy and dirty parts of the lower engine and suspension. The owner says he replaced the valve cover gaskets and cleaned the top of the engine, but didn't do anything below, and there's a good bit of oil residue on the bottom half of the block and all the steering parts beneath.
BUT, oil is the first thing I thought, too. Very little viscosity to the fluid, though. Quite watery with just a little slickness to it when I rubbed my fingers together.
I did dip some up from the puddle into a clean plastic container after the guy left the scene, though. May try to run it past a mechanic here in town to see what he thinks of it.
03-18-2013, 11:31 AM
#11
Mopar Fan
Just pull the dipstick and open the radiator. Check the color of the oil and the rad fluid to determine which is the milky one you are seeing down below. I would only buy this car if the engine is sound. By the looks of the throttle linkage the carb is a edelbrock or carter afb.
03-18-2013, 12:49 PM
#12
Just pull the dipstick and open the radiator. Check the color of the oil and the rad fluid to determine which is the milky one you are seeing down below. I would only buy this car if the engine is sound. By the looks of the throttle linkage the carb is a edelbrock or carter afb.
I suspect it's leaked for awhile and he hasn't been refilling with coolant, but primarily water. Take it around on an eight-block "test drive" circuit, bring it back and shut it off, hope the buyer doesn't look closely.
Thanks for the carb info.
05-01-2013, 04:54 PM
#15
Meanwhile, I've had a lot of other options to consider, including an even older Chrysler right in my hometown. I'm going to post about her shortly.
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