I hope the timing hasn't slipped! 318
03-14-2009, 11:58 AM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
I hope the timing hasn't slipped! 318
I could really use some help with my truck.
1978 Dodge D-100 318 Automatic 2brl Stock Everything
The truck was running just fine until I needed to run to the store and I didn't let the engine warm up before I took off. It stalled (no surprise) Now it will not start!!! There was no noise that anything had broke.
The engine turns over fine. There is plenty of fuel to the carb. Starter fluid will not cause any firing at all. The distributor has not shifted. I am getting spark to the plugs. I replaced the coil, the resistor, the electronic ignition, the voltage regulator..... to no avail. I am at a loss for what else this could be but the timing gear slipping. Is there a way to verify this without taking the entire front of the engine apart?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I am in need to my truck desperately!
1978 Dodge D-100 318 Automatic 2brl Stock EverythingThe truck was running just fine until I needed to run to the store and I didn't let the engine warm up before I took off. It stalled (no surprise) Now it will not start!!! There was no noise that anything had broke.
The engine turns over fine. There is plenty of fuel to the carb. Starter fluid will not cause any firing at all. The distributor has not shifted. I am getting spark to the plugs. I replaced the coil, the resistor, the electronic ignition, the voltage regulator..... to no avail. I am at a loss for what else this could be but the timing gear slipping. Is there a way to verify this without taking the entire front of the engine apart?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated as I am in need to my truck desperately!
03-14-2009, 01:30 PM
#2
Admin
Sounds like a sure thing to me.... Your timing chain skipped a tooth or two.
It happened to a friend of mine back in college with his ramcharger. We tried everything to get it running and nothing worked. He ended up selling it for dirt cheap, the guy just intalled a new timing chain and gear set and it ran like a champ.
Timing chains are not that bad and are pretty easy to do even for the home mechanic.
It happened to a friend of mine back in college with his ramcharger. We tried everything to get it running and nothing worked. He ended up selling it for dirt cheap, the guy just intalled a new timing chain and gear set and it ran like a champ.
Timing chains are not that bad and are pretty easy to do even for the home mechanic.
03-14-2009, 06:49 PM
#4
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Thank you very much to the two of you!
Now if the chain did slip, is there likely to be any damage to the crank shaft or the cam, where the chain is attached, or should this be a simple matter of removing the old chain and sprockets and replacing them?
Now if the chain did slip, is there likely to be any damage to the crank shaft or the cam, where the chain is attached, or should this be a simple matter of removing the old chain and sprockets and replacing them?
03-14-2009, 10:21 PM
#7
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yeah make sure to check rotor on #1 plug because i had the exact same thing happen to me. I was pulling out of the driveway and it died and didnt wanna restart. I replace all the electrical and it was getting gas and spark but still nothing. The weird thing is I check the shop manual and according to that the plugs were all wrong on the distributor. Put them in the right order and it started right up. But how it was working fine before that still confuses me to this day.
03-15-2009, 04:38 AM
#8
Admin
Nothing else should be damaged. What happens is the chain stretches over time and once it gets too loose, it will just a tooth on the cam gear. I would go down to your local parts store, pick one up with a couple of gaskets (shouldn't cost more than $40) and you should be good.
03-21-2009, 06:29 PM
#9
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Posts: n/a
I was finally able to start working on the truck today. You all were absolutely correct with the timing. The Cam Sprocket was missing more teeth than a meth addict.
This is were I'm at.
1.) I turned the crank until cylinder 1 was at TDC
2.) I then then turned the cam until the first valve on cylinder on was open. SHAZAM!!! The keys lined up so that I could install the timing set with the dots aligned.
3.) NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION. The rotor does not line up with plug #1 on the distributer.
Is this because the wires may have been installed incorrectly all this time and I just need to put them in the correct order, or did I miss a step somewhere?
This is were I'm at.
1.) I turned the crank until cylinder 1 was at TDC
2.) I then then turned the cam until the first valve on cylinder on was open. SHAZAM!!! The keys lined up so that I could install the timing set with the dots aligned.
3.) NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION. The rotor does not line up with plug #1 on the distributer.
Is this because the wires may have been installed incorrectly all this time and I just need to put them in the correct order, or did I miss a step somewhere?
03-21-2009, 08:47 PM
#12
Mopar Lover
I agree with ya Ryan e. The valves should be pretty much closed. Make sure that the dot on the crank gear is at the 12 o'clock position and the dot on the cam gear is at the 6 o'clock position. Remember, the number 1 cylinder is on the driver's side [front] The valves on this cylinder position should be closed with the dots aligned. Dont worry about the position of the rotor, leave it where its pointing and whatever position the rotor is pointing to, make that the #1 plug wire position. Loosen the distributor hold down a bit. Make sure the advance canister has room to move in either direction and then line up one of the tower terminals on the cap with the rotor tip. This will be the number one plug wire. Then, following your firing order, install the wires to the cap in a clockwise rotation pattern. One after another, 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2. Twist the distributor
back and forth while cranking the motor over when you go to start it up.
so four things;
1. dots lined up at 12 and 6 o'clock respectively
2. valves on the #1 cylinder position closed.
3. line up the #1 plug wire with the rotor tip
4. install the wires in a clockwise pattern consecutivley, following
the firing order.
back and forth while cranking the motor over when you go to start it up.
so four things;
1. dots lined up at 12 and 6 o'clock respectively
2. valves on the #1 cylinder position closed.
3. line up the #1 plug wire with the rotor tip
4. install the wires in a clockwise pattern consecutivley, following
the firing order.
06-06-2011, 12:13 PM
#17
Same Prob
I was finally able to start working on the truck today. You all were absolutely correct with the timing. The Cam Sprocket was missing more teeth than a meth addict.
This is were I'm at.
1.) I turned the crank until cylinder 1 was at TDC
2.) I then then turned the cam until the first valve on cylinder on was open. SHAZAM!!! The keys lined up so that I could install the timing set with the dots aligned.
3.) NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION. The rotor does not line up with plug #1 on the distributer.
Is this because the wires may have been installed incorrectly all this time and I just need to put them in the correct order, or did I miss a step somewhere?
This is were I'm at.
1.) I turned the crank until cylinder 1 was at TDC
2.) I then then turned the cam until the first valve on cylinder on was open. SHAZAM!!! The keys lined up so that I could install the timing set with the dots aligned.
3.) NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION. The rotor does not line up with plug #1 on the distributer.
Is this because the wires may have been installed incorrectly all this time and I just need to put them in the correct order, or did I miss a step somewhere?
Tore it apart 2nd time to make sure the timing gear marks were correct. It's still backfiring thru carb and muffler. Only thing I did not make sure of is that the valves were closed at TDC. Another question is where the solid mark on the dampener should be when timing it in and after putting gears back on. Solid mark to 0 on the timing cover? Anyway I can turn the cam without taking timing cover back off? When setting mine at TDC my rotor always pointed on a right angle toward the fire wall. I know the firing sequence is correct and pick up the rotor and turned it to number one. I am down to a bad valve or that I didn't make sure the #1 cylinder valves were closed at TDC. Thanks need help. 2 teardowns and going for a third teardown if needed. Getting to be frustrating.
06-07-2011, 08:30 AM
#19
I have had the exact same problems on a 78 D100 318 2bbl
Tore it apart 2nd time to make sure the timing gear marks were correct. It's still backfiring thru carb and muffler. Only thing I did not make sure of is that the valves were closed at TDC. Another question is where the solid mark on the dampener should be when timing it in and after putting gears back on. Solid mark to 0 on the timing cover? Anyway I can turn the cam without taking timing cover back off? When setting mine at TDC my rotor always pointed on a right angle toward the fire wall. I know the firing sequence is correct and pick up the rotor and turned it to number one. I am down to a bad valve or that I didn't make sure the #1 cylinder valves were closed at TDC. Thanks need help. 2 teardowns and going for a third teardown if needed. Getting to be frustrating.
Tore it apart 2nd time to make sure the timing gear marks were correct. It's still backfiring thru carb and muffler. Only thing I did not make sure of is that the valves were closed at TDC. Another question is where the solid mark on the dampener should be when timing it in and after putting gears back on. Solid mark to 0 on the timing cover? Anyway I can turn the cam without taking timing cover back off? When setting mine at TDC my rotor always pointed on a right angle toward the fire wall. I know the firing sequence is correct and pick up the rotor and turned it to number one. I am down to a bad valve or that I didn't make sure the #1 cylinder valves were closed at TDC. Thanks need help. 2 teardowns and going for a third teardown if needed. Getting to be frustrating.
Most engines, (GM, Fraud, Mopar) specify that the cam drive be installed "dot to dot," IE top sprocket dot down at 6 o'clock, crank sprocket up at 12 o'clock.
THIS IS GENERALLY no6 cylinder read to fire, NOT no1, so in this case, both no6 valves are closed, both no1 valves are open
So just rotate the crank 1 turn, now you'll have the crank dot "up" again, and the crank sprocket will ALSO be up at 12 o'clock, so now you'll have to use a straightedge to check the marks.--and so now both no1 valves are closed.
THIS IS THE POINT that you drop the distributor driver gear into place, but----
"it does not matter."
The only reason that the dist. drive gear (intermediate shaft) and the no1 wire is specified, is:
so the factory guys can "wrench, repeat."
so the plug wires "lay nice"
so the tuneup mechanics "see" what they expect
The truth is, that so long as the cam is lined up, all you need to do is poke the dist. in any old way (GM, Fraud) and WHEREVER the rotor points, is where your no1 wire becomes
I can't imagine that you tore the engine down and did NOT replace the cam drive if needed, --how much slop is in the chain?
The fact is that if it's backfiring through the carb, it's either a valve hung open for some reason (bent, stuck, material lodged, etc), A FLAT CAM LOBE(s), or the cam is "out of time."
Another thing you might want to check is whether the timing marks are correct---balancers DO occasionally slip. To do this, build, buy or get a "piston stop like this:"
http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/...stallation.jpg
Make sure the piston is "down a ways" and install the stop. Unhook battery for safety, and wrench the engine around until it stops. First time, you might have to adjust the stop. Make a temporary mark on the balancer under TDC on the timing tab.
Now do the same thing CCW. Now you'll have two temporary marks on the balancer, and true TDC will be halfway between the two marks. If the factory mark is correct, that is where it will be.
Last edited by 440roadrunner; 06-07-2011 at 08:36 AM.
09-19-2011, 06:10 PM
#20
EGR Plug
Problem all along was the EGR plug (threaded under carb inside intake) came out of the intake causing massive backfire then shot up and wedged inside of the intake tunnel going towards the front. Could have saved alot of work and money if I would have found it first. Problem now is I cannot see my timing (white marked with whiteout, solid timing mark) lined up with 0 on the timing cover. My rotor now points toward 1 o'clock position on in the dizz when looking straight down on the dizz (forehead towards firewall) that and I rebuilt the 2bbl carter and it loads up now and smokes some then hesitates.
09-19-2011, 06:13 PM
#21
09-19-2011, 06:27 PM
#22
Timing
Here's the deal on V8 cam timing:
Most engines, (GM, Fraud, Mopar) specify that the cam drive be installed "dot to dot," IE top sprocket dot down at 6 o'clock, crank sprocket up at 12 o'clock.
THIS IS GENERALLY no6 cylinder read to fire, NOT no1, so in this case, both no6 valves are closed, both no1 valves are open
So just rotate the crank 1 turn, now you'll have the crank dot "up" again, and the crank sprocket will ALSO be up at 12 o'clock, so now you'll have to use a straightedge to check the marks.--and so now both no1 valves are closed.
THIS IS THE POINT that you drop the distributor driver gear into place, but----
"it does not matter."
The only reason that the dist. drive gear (intermediate shaft) and the no1 wire is specified, is:
so the factory guys can "wrench, repeat."
so the plug wires "lay nice"
so the tuneup mechanics "see" what they expect
The truth is, that so long as the cam is lined up, all you need to do is poke the dist. in any old way (GM, Fraud) and WHEREVER the rotor points, is where your no1 wire becomes
I can't imagine that you tore the engine down and did NOT replace the cam drive if needed, --how much slop is in the chain?
The fact is that if it's backfiring through the carb, it's either a valve hung open for some reason (bent, stuck, material lodged, etc), A FLAT CAM LOBE(s), or the cam is "out of time."
Another thing you might want to check is whether the timing marks are correct---balancers DO occasionally slip. To do this, build, buy or get a "piston stop like this:"
http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/...stallation.jpg
Make sure the piston is "down a ways" and install the stop. Unhook battery for safety, and wrench the engine around until it stops. First time, you might have to adjust the stop. Make a temporary mark on the balancer under TDC on the timing tab.
Now do the same thing CCW. Now you'll have two temporary marks on the balancer, and true TDC will be halfway between the two marks. If the factory mark is correct, that is where it will be.
Most engines, (GM, Fraud, Mopar) specify that the cam drive be installed "dot to dot," IE top sprocket dot down at 6 o'clock, crank sprocket up at 12 o'clock.
THIS IS GENERALLY no6 cylinder read to fire, NOT no1, so in this case, both no6 valves are closed, both no1 valves are open
So just rotate the crank 1 turn, now you'll have the crank dot "up" again, and the crank sprocket will ALSO be up at 12 o'clock, so now you'll have to use a straightedge to check the marks.--and so now both no1 valves are closed.
THIS IS THE POINT that you drop the distributor driver gear into place, but----
"it does not matter."
The only reason that the dist. drive gear (intermediate shaft) and the no1 wire is specified, is:
so the factory guys can "wrench, repeat."
so the plug wires "lay nice"
so the tuneup mechanics "see" what they expect
The truth is, that so long as the cam is lined up, all you need to do is poke the dist. in any old way (GM, Fraud) and WHEREVER the rotor points, is where your no1 wire becomes
I can't imagine that you tore the engine down and did NOT replace the cam drive if needed, --how much slop is in the chain?
The fact is that if it's backfiring through the carb, it's either a valve hung open for some reason (bent, stuck, material lodged, etc), A FLAT CAM LOBE(s), or the cam is "out of time."
Another thing you might want to check is whether the timing marks are correct---balancers DO occasionally slip. To do this, build, buy or get a "piston stop like this:"
http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/...stallation.jpg
Make sure the piston is "down a ways" and install the stop. Unhook battery for safety, and wrench the engine around until it stops. First time, you might have to adjust the stop. Make a temporary mark on the balancer under TDC on the timing tab.
Now do the same thing CCW. Now you'll have two temporary marks on the balancer, and true TDC will be halfway between the two marks. If the factory mark is correct, that is where it will be.
After replacing timing gears----which I thought was original prob (read below)
Problem all along was the EGR plug (threaded under carb inside intake) came out of the intake causing massive backfire then shot up and wedged inside of the intake tunnel going towards the front. Could have saved alot of work and money if I would have found it first. Problem now is I cannot see my timing (white marked with whiteout, solid timing mark) lined up with 0 on the timing cover. My rotor now points toward 1 o'clock position on in the dizz when looking straight down on the dizz (forehead towards firewall) that and I rebuilt the 2bbl carter and it loads up now and smokes some then hesitates.
09-19-2011, 07:03 PM
#23
BTW..forgot..One thing I did not like is the replacement timing chain had on loose side and one tight side to it after installed on new gears, double roller chain on SA GEAR company gears. ????
01-05-2012, 02:31 PM
#24
That is normal a result of the valve spring pressure on the lifter trying to turn the camshaft
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