Magoo

My 360/408 has 10:1 pistons, aluminum heads, 274-.559" hyd cam, headers and 3" exhaust. - I have a low buck 2 row cross flow aluminum radiator with a home made shroud and a 7 blade Mopar fan. -- I am running Evans Coolant. - On the highway the temp runs approx. 195 - 200. When I get into slow traffic such as in town, the temp goes up to 220 and higher. -- I have been told to get rid of the Evans Coolant and switch to water with some brand of Water Wetter type product. - Also I am thinking about a Champion 3 row aluminum radiator. -- Any input will be greatly appreciated. -- Thanks

RacerHog

http://moparsatmerits.com/2011Sponso...rlieflyer1.pdf
Get the rad. From Charlie... 3 row is good way to go if you have room.
180 thermostat...
Water wetter works well....
Make sure the fans moves the well.....
Hope you got the rite pulleys on the motor.. Not the under drive ones..

Just my 2 cents

Drag Pak

Where are you running the ignition timing?

Magoo

34 degrees and whatever initial is.

Magoo

---- Anyone have experience or info regarding Evans Coolant ?

Archer

Magoo -

If the car runs at thermostat temp when moving, but climbs in traffic (and drops back down when moving again), you have an air flow problem.

Agree with Bob, a better radiator might be in order, but you might also need more air from a better fan/shroud combo. Also agree that a lower t-stat would be a good idea.

I don't have first hand experience with Evans, but it seems more trouble than it's worth. Read what the ads say and tell me if it really makes sense.

I'd use a water/anti-freeze mix with a wet water additive (like Purple Ice). If that doesn't do it, then the problem is more likely mechanical.

Archer

Magoo

I have contacted a company in Michigan that handles Champion Radiators and I am planning to get a particular 3 row that is currently out of stock. -- I attended Chryslers At Carlisle and talked to a guy that had a 68 Barracuda with a 408. He had experienced similar problems and this radiator, plus a shroud corrected his problem. -- While I'm waiting for this radiator, I plan to drain out the Evans, and for now replace with just water / no anti freeze, plus some type of water wetter. -- Possibly that may save me some $$. - You guys have suggested action that helps me feel more comfortable with the direction of my thinking. -- I will report on the progress. -- Thanks again to you and Bob.

DDodger

This is no way to be. If you happen to be running a stock distributor with a "smog" advance this might equate to "very little" initial AND ADDS TO THE PROBLEM, AKA retarded timing causes heating

Another extremely important point is "how did you check" your temperature gauge? You can use a fancy IR device, but frankly, just taping an old school thermometer to the underside 3/4 of the top hose, with a rag taped around to insulate is as accurate as you need to be.

Have you got a good reliable thermostat and have you tried changing it?

Magoo

It's a Mopar Electronic Dist. - MSD 6Al etc. - The temp gauge is a Auto Meter. --I have switched the thermostat. It's a 190 from NAPA. I did not check the gauge, however this system gets HOT. I've had enough Hot Rods to know what HOT is. -- New info - I just drained the Evans Coolant and flushed out the block and the radiatior. - I put in water / no anti freeze and added 2 bottles of Non-Rosion for lubricating purposes. It's mid 80s here today. I took the car for a 20 mile ride, mainly on level roads. On the highway it ran about 95, which was the same as before. - Upon returning home I have to drive thru a small town and up a hill to my house. - With the Evans the temp upon arrival home was always around 220. - One time, only, while stuck in slow traffic it went to 240 (too Hot). -- Today with the water in the system the temp upon arrival home was just under 200. -- Hopefully I'm heading in the right direction - time will tell.

RacerHog

190* Therm... Running up to 200-220* is rite on for the 190* thermostat...
I would like to see it with a 180*... But you can try it last.....

I would also be curious about the Timing At Idle? I would Guess 12-18* ??

Magoo

I was wrong about the t-stat, it is a 180. -- Will look at timing at idle. - Where do you think that it should be ? - I'm not versed in playing with the internals of a distributor, and that is the reason that I said "whatever initial is".--

RacerHog

Understood..... Just check it and report back.....

Just food for thought:
this dist. might be locked @ 34* If im reading / understanding you rite....
But For the most part... It is like 12-23* at Idle and Whatever curve works best for the combo for the total. Let just say it is 34* and all in by 3200RPM per say.

Magoo

WE set the timing to 34 BTC at 3,000 RPM, by turning the distributor. -- AS you might have guessed -- The electrical part of a vehicle is not in My bag of tricks..

Drag Pak

Should be @ 34 - 35 (I prefer 35) all in(total mechanical) by 2000 rpm, with vacuum disconnected! I believe this is in your distributor instructions. This may take some effort and distributor disassembly. I use drill bits for the measuring devices when gapping the total advance plate. 34/35 depends on your local gasoline quality.

As I have had great success with this, I would certainly give it a try first!

Magoo

Just talked to my Buddy, who actually set the timing. - He said that he set it at 34 at 2,000 RPM. -- Thanks for the wake up.

DDodger

You need to determine what INITIAL timing is as well. "idle."

All this water wetter / Evans / coolant is throwing you a curve. ANY vehicle on the street should be able to run either water or 50-50 coolant. If it won't then you have some other problem

Engines build more heat at speed..........more power. This means if it cools OK at "medium cruise" and / or at "high speed" then you probably have enough radiator and coolant flow.

If it won't cool at low speed it's probably not enough fan or poor design of the fan / shroud, etc

But since you are running "towards hot" at all speeds, I would say not enough rad in this case

DO NOT discount timing and carb mixture. Too retarded, too lean HAS a HUGE effect. If you are not running vacuum advance, consider doing so.

You NEED to deal with the timing issue FIRST. That is "you don't seem to know". Many cammed up engines need a LOT of initial advance, sometimes more than 20* IN FACT there's a guy over at "A Bodies" who made a bushing for the MSD distributors because MSD does not make a small enough advance bushing. I don't recall I think the smallest is 22*? With 34 total, you probably don't want as much as 20 in the distributor, which would give you 14BTC initial. Depending on the cam and engine build THIS may not be "enough."

My vote? Make sure of the timing and jetting, and then change the radiator.

Magoo

With water and No-Rosion as a lubricant - I switched to a 160 t-stat - ran about 175 on the highway - 185 - 190 thru town - up the hill and into the garage just under 200. -- I plan to have a good shroud built. -- I'm starting to believe that Evans Coolant may have been a major contributor to my problem. -- See info on www.norosion.com - re testing Evans vs their product and water. - New radiator on hold, for now. -- Thanks again for all of the help that you guys have provided. -- We'll get there.

Rooty

I plan on putting a 512 strker in my '65 Fury this summer so cooling was tops on my list. Keeping 585 H.P. heat under control is of ultimate concern so here's what I've done thus far with the cooling experiments on my existing 383 hi-performance:
Switched to an 80/20 coolant mix of distilled water and glycol. Temps dropped 8
degrees with a 180 T-stat from previous at high speeds and r.p.m.'s.
Installed larger crank pulley (440 motorhome type) which spins the smaller water pump pulley 15% faster and creates higher coolant pressure in the block which prevents air and steam pockets in the cooling jacket. Crank, alt and water pump are twin v-belt driven. I use a stock 8 vane pump.
Installed a 3 row Champion aluminum rad and rerouted tranny cooler lines to a separate heat exchanger. Cap is 16 pounds.
I run a 16 inch Spal electric fan (quiet paddle design) with 2750 cu.ft./ minute air flow controlled by a Dakoda Digital electronic controller with the thermal sensor on the top of the water pump housing. On at 185, off at 180 with a 2 minute run-on after shutting down the engine to lessen hot-soak. This fan moves so much air (quietly) stay back from a pedestrian crossing at a red light - you may be picking more than just bugs out of the fins. Same flow when idling but does not come on above 40 m.p.h. Temp gauge holds 180-187 under all driving conditions.
Fabricated and installed a left and right air tunnel wing just in front of the rad. Starts at the edge of the rad and slants outward 7 1/2 inches to either side. They are the full heigth of the rad. At higher speeds the air is funneled into the face of the rad keeping a positive and higher air pressure across the forward surface. Probably why the cooling fan doesn't activate at high speeds.
This may seem like overkill to some but most people accept "what is" rather than "what can be" and with a bit of research you'll find these tricks all over the web and I'm confident that you'll resolve your issue with patience and a bit of "out of the box" thinking. Oh, do experiment with that timing and find where your combo runs best - more timing = cooler running but not so much that you get ping. Sometimes advancing the timing to the point of ping and then backing off until it goes away yields the best timing.

moe7404

i got this info from an old mopar parts man. in the late 60s. on big blocks chrysler wanted more air flow on A / C cars. so they made different pulleys to spin the fan faster. but they thought it had to much water flow. so on A / C cars they used a 6 blade water pump. and on a non A / C it had a 8 blade water pump. but after market re-builders never payed any attention to it. and i gained lots of water flow on 360 buy putting plate on the blades. it worked VERY good.

Magoo

Per the guy that I bought it from, it has a High Volume water pump - whatever that means, as far as the internals of the pump. and it has a 6 blade manual cooling fan. - Yesterday it was in the high 80s here, and it behaved between 175 and 200 all around. -- Hopefully I'm getting to where I'm comfortable with it, without spending too much money.