I have a 64 imperial crown, I am upgrading it to a 440 cause my 413 needs rebuilt why not upgrade will only coast like $300 more to make the upgrade. This car is not going to be used to race will never see the drag strip, It needs to sound good & would like it to have plenty of power where its still feels awesome when i step on it. my stall converter is stock 2200 ( cant change the stall converter unless i change transmission parts they don't make these converters anymore ), 2.94 stock gears with automatic A-727 pushbutton transmission ( 3 speed i believe ). here is the current build I am looking at Please give your opinions. I have had other threads and took peoples advice and changed some of my original thoughts so here it is so far to see a stand point of what this is looking like and where im at. The car will be for weekend cruising maybe drive to work once or twice a week and for participating in car shows.

Stock Manifolds - no one makes headers for my application & seeing its not a race car wont make much difference that ill notice on the streets at all i dont think.
Edlebrock E-street Heads 84cc chamber size 210 cc runner ( also thought about running the stealth heads but they have too small cc chambers to keep low compression? they are like $700 cheaper)
Edlebrock Performer Intake ( idle- 5500 rpm )
Pistons need to match heads to get me ~9.25:1 compression i don't know what + or - ( i dont know how the deck clearance thing works yet? and gasket thickness )
Carburetor not sure what size I would need 750 or 800 cfm? maybe a 850?
Hughes 440 Whiplash cam: Duration @.050 232/245, Lift @ .518/.518 ( with 1.5 rockers ) .552/.552 ( with 1.6 rockers ) Lobe separation of 107, centerline of 102 -- Requires 9.25:1 or less compression ( called them )
Going to keep stock 1.5 rockers ( i still need to call edlebrock to see if my stock rockers will work on them heads or maybe you guys know? )

that's all i can think of for now not sure if i missed anything? Let me know what you guys think and how streetable this would be Thanks for the help in advanced!

 

I would get an opinion (manufacturer's) on whether or not the camshaft you mention will produce enough curb idle vacuum to give you good in gear idle(800rpm ish curb idle) characteristic when mated with your stockish(tight)torque converter choice. You don't want to be in idle hell with very poor off curb driveability.

 

was reading on their website here is what ive found.

Whiplash cam:
These cams have a VERY agressive idle and explosive power right off idle. This cam will pull hadr to 6,000rpm. Vacuum will be low (9"-11")

Suggested upgrades ( not required )
Recurved distributor, HP ignition, dual exhaust or headers, 4bbl intake. 7-8.5:1 compression with iron heads in small blocks, 7 to 9.5:1 in big blocks. Small blocks with aluminum heads can be as high as 9.8:1 and big blocks 10.25:1.

whats the vacuum will be low ( 9"-11") mean? that the converter size cause i think my factory converter is a 11"

another cam i been looking at is Comp Cams Duel energy 275DEH
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=716&sb=2
says nothing about needing a certain stall, CR or anything and its 1800-5500 rpm range love the sound on it. its a 219/235 duration, 110 lobe, 106 center-line. Thoughts on this cam?

Sound clip below with the 275DEH

 

A key point to remember is your car is 5000lbs, the muscle car videos are 3200-3800lb cars which influenced their cam choice.

Demetri has said he went with a higher rpm power for his type of driving which lost him some lower end torque.

 

64 -

I think what you want is a solid driver with a good sound and a little oomph, right?

The cam is too hot for you application, look into the mildest Edlebrock or Comp Cams offerings. You're probably wasting money on the heads. Have the heads on the engine re-done and the ports cleaned up, you'll get the same performance at a fraction of the cost. (as per Edelbrock, yeah I asked). You're probably not going to stay at a high enough RPM to take advantage of head upgrades anyway.

A 750 or LOWER carb would be a better, since you're not going to get the RPM or efficiency of a race engine. Factory Holley's on 440s were about 600 IIRC.

You might want to get an electronic ignition upgrade (dizzy and ECU), inexpensive and will save you a lot of headaches over points going forward. The Mopar offering (Orange ECU box) is more than enough.

Re the vacuum: while 9-11" H2) isn't "that" low is might be low enough to mess with power brakes and any other vacuum operated accessories. You have a pretty heavy car there and low end torque has to beat HP. Too lumpy an idle may sound nice for a while, but drivability will suffer.

If you don't have power brakes, might also be an upgrade worth consodering.

Also, don't know how much of your car is original, but you might want to look at the suspension parts (bushings and hard parts). They do have a limited life span and a good HP engine without road manners is kinda useless if not dangerous.

That was just a 30,000' view.

Archer

 

Every one is saying the same thing, cam is to big!

 

i didnt really know the car weght really effected the cam that much at all, and im buying new heads cause it costs $800 to go through the heads ive gotten two quotes locally for $200 more i could get the stealth heads and little more get the edlebrocks i feel like cast heads are a waste to put any money in when i can get something twice as good for barley more $$$. so it seems its impossible to get the sound im looking for with this particular car, i mile as well throw a mild cam on it and quiet mufflers. sell the car for ~$9,000 and buy a real mopar that i can actually buy parts for, and the car is 100% original 100% complete. kind of a bummer cause ive always wanted that type of sound in a car for years now. maybe i should just save my money sell the car 9k buy a diff car aroudn 5k and use the 8k i have now and the extra 4k on that car. maybe i could find a nice old chevy i like seeing everything for them is super cheap even crate engines for them are like 1-2k cheaper than dodge and ford... but chevys leak =P and i wont find a car thats in as good shape as the one i have. i have like no rust or anything.. decisions decisions... maybe go buy another 90 fox mustang...
if i cant get somewhat close to what i've always wanted why build it?

 

Unless things have improved in the last couple years, you should realize that both these aftermarket heads will require valve guide honing and pushrod clearancing before you bolt them on. And that will cost a couple or a few hundred dollars extra. Both these heads flow well at 0.600" lift, (most are reported at 0.500" lift) which is insignificant to anyone not running a 0.700" lift camshaft. Bang for your buck, not worth the investment.

Don't be discouraged by the advise you are getting here. You will have to do the exact same thing to any brand. Some may be less expensive, but not when longevity comes in to play. The military didn't use Dodge for 50 + years because they broke down!

 

if these require more work how are they even selling them? all that should come with the heads when you buy them... sounds kinda false advertising to me then... they claim numbers but how can they if out of the box wont work and you need extra work on them and they never mention it in their ads or on the part pages? this is the first time i heard of this information... im new to this its my first undertaking... im starting to think im going to **** it all up somewhere cause all these "hidden" things that have to be done or it wont work..
so your telling me just take my 413 heads get them done ported to max and new valves and everything for the $800 it will cost and use those? i think my 64 413 heads are 516s? not sure, ive not started tearing the 413 out yet i just cleaned the whole garage this weekend made space to be organized and its ready to start now
Even the stealth heads from 440source are this way?
Whats its cost to increase valve size in my 413 heads? or is it even possible/ worth doing? i dont want to port them out to match gaskets if the valves cant even flow that much anyways, dont you want the valves and ports to be able to flow the same amount?
& i always thought all the Humvees and things where chevys lol
- chevys leak i have a 1995 k1500 i replaced gaskets and **** the mechanic told me it would be leaking again in 2 years cause thats how they all are and sure enough its started to leak again cost me like 600 bucks to do some of the gaskets cause you have to tear like the whole everything apart to get to it cause everything is in the way of something else stupidly designed. once i get my imperial running im going to sell the stupid truck before more things start to leak i paid 5k for the truck and im like 3500 in fixing things, ball joints, cab bolts, intake gasket, power steering hoses, throttle body, multiple sensors. idle air control sensor just went out on it too so have to put a 2nd one in it after a year.

 

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THE OLD SCHOOL MILITARY WAS ALL DODGE (pre 1970 here). I would just rebuild the stock heads with stock size stainless steel valves(won't need new hardened valve seats). Mild cam, (stock rockers and pushrods)dual plane intake, tru roller timing chain(Rollmaster) high pressure oil pump spring on a standard volume oil pump, 9.5ish compression ratio, Mopar electronic ignition. You are not looking to beat the world here and a simple combination will be more than you are probably expecting.

 

I called the guy he said the heads and everyting are mine since i was first to call. they are complete 906 heads rockers and everything he said they look mechanically sound and shouldnt need anything to run he just pulled them off. it also comes with a crane cam he said it says on the cam its a 278/290 duration im assuming and 467/494 lift im assuming? he said the crane cam is brand new and the guys hes working on the engine with told him to just throw all the stuff away that its worthless pretty much. he said we can ship it though fasenal store

I thought you had to have hardened seats with todays gas? or that some kinda of myth? one of the reasons i was redoing the heads anyways was cause of the seats =P

and i read about the 906 and 915 heads supposed to be some of the best? cause the already larger valves and larger ports? i thought about these but then thought well i probably coudlnt find any of those so i didnt bother but now i get some for the cost of shipping. strange how the world works. i forget what cc chambers the 906 have? 88? & 1973 heads would have hardened seats already anyways wouldn't they?

 

Thats a Smok'in Deal !!!!!
For the cost of shipping... Dam
DragPak Rocks !!!

 

should i ask him about manifolds? or those the kind i need?

 

Not if the ones we were talking about will fit the Imperial... You would have to check and see if they will fit?

They look like these... Again I'm not sure...Have to measure.. or find someone that knows for sure...
http://www.brewersperformance.com/products.asp?cat=179

 

i called him again hes adding the manifolds anyways ones got a broken flange though but i guess i could use them for fitment purposes lol

and looking at them manifolds they almost look like my imperials stock ones. ill take pics once i get them off i was looking at them the other day thought they kinda look funny how the exhaust exits on oneside... wonder if they got that design from the early imperials or something? id have to take them off to be sure but they do look kinda the same as the ones you linked.


Never mind I found pics of them the T shaped one is the driver side the other is passenger side these are the stock 413 imperial manifolds

looking at the engine compartment looks liek the passenger side will fit the driver side wont cause of some oil covered part idk what it is lol the imperial has like verything under the hood, AC, power steering ect practically looks like a modern car with all this **** they came with. and the imperial is runnign 2-1 single exhaust and its like small 2" if that maybe even 1 3/4 not measured it kinda starting to hope im not stuck with the stock manifolds cause damn they are pretty small they could probably work on a small block lol

 

Thanks Bob, but I am only the messenger.

Steven Hebert the SS/AH "Spyphish" guy gave away the parts!

You can bet these parts are real good!

 

The cam the guy is giving me with the lifters is a crane cam H-278-2 with lifters and everything, sounds like he had this cam installed with the 906 heads im getting and the intake and TQ carb im getting from him too. hes literally giving me everything even waterpump housing and all, hes going to a 440 6 pack build for his challenger is why hes parting with it all. sounds like he had all this together as his old engine build, didnt have it together very long i dont think cause he says the cylinders still have cross hatching on them wouldnt that mean low miles on these parts?. idk the carbs cfm or anything but this cam looks like i could probably use it its really close to the same specs as the 275DEH i was talking about earlier.
What you guys think? he said the cam and lifters are new. i'm just curious if its risky running a cam in a engine that came from another engine they all wear differently dont they no two engines are the same type deal? or would it really even matter for a street application?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cr.../make/chrysler

This cam is a 3 bolt what if the block i find is 1 bolt? i read somewhere you have to change the timing chain to 3 bolt ( that's no problem ) but they also said the 1 bolt and 3 bolt styles are different on the opposite end where the camshaft lays in place can anyone confirm that? or is it just a matter of the timing chain sprocket pattern? i had a couple people say its just the timing chain no big deal. I would buy a new timing chain regardless just asking.

he sent me this e-mail this is what all hes giving me for the cost of shipping:
"One day you just help someone. Pay it forward deal. Lifters are labeled P1 for passenger side, D1 for drivers side, first hole etc. Keep the lifters on the cam like they were. You get complete heads with shafts, rockers, pushrods, intake, thermo quad, RV oil pan with tray/pickup, water pump housing, and exhaust manifolds. One is broken. I will throw it in a tote screwed to a pallet and send to your Fastenal. Good luck. PS If it's not what you need, chunk it. Good luck, glad to help. Stephen"

 

Sounds like this is great deal and this guy would have done a proper break-in so I would have no problem running this cam with the lifters as long as they go in the right holes as instructed.

3 bolt drive on the 3 bolt cam any block is OK.

If I had this cam and related parts I would run it even if I thought it "too big" it's basically free and if you don't like it change it later.

Changing a cam with the engine in the car is straight forward, one day deal and driving that night.

You cannot beat a good working Thermoquad, BEST carb for a heavy Chrysler.

 

Ha... You looked I didnt...llol
Great bunch of guys over there... I dont get over there much... But I am a member.... Good catch..
Stephen is a good dude.....

 

i thought you had to pull the engine to change a cam o.o im new to building engines so yeah... im learning things left and right. To be honest i known nothing about mopar engines, i started doing research only a month ago. i thought the whole engine needed tore down to do any of this stuff.

the Thermoquad cam whats the cfm on those anyone know? and from the looks at it im going to just run the cam he gave me with them 906 heads i dont know if they are open or closed chambered and i dont know if hes had any head work done to them guess ill find out when i get them he text me this morning he already boxed them up and is taking them to fasenal to ship them to my local fasenal. ive done a little research where the open chambered needs quinched pistions to get the right power they said anywhere between .30 and .60 quinch the best bing around .40 to .45 quinch.... im still kinda new i dont know exactly what quinch is but i am doing research and learning not just letting you guys school me all day long im trying to help too lol

 

While you wait grab one of these. How to rebuild.



Thermoquad.

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ad-carburetor/

 

I bought one of these last week xD

 

this ignition "orange box" your talking about is this the one?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dcc-4120505

and would it work with this distributor? ( i was planning on changing away from the "points style " anyways. )
http://store.440source.com/PRO-BILLE...info/117-1000/
how much wiring is involved in this? im not really amazing at wiring anything i know basics ( hot wires, grounds ect. )

 

ELECTRONIC IGNITION SYSTEMS
D. Electronic Ignition Conversion Kits
Now available to convert old point-type ignitions to electronic ignitions. Modern
magnetic impulse ignition systems have many advantages over breaker-type
ignition systems. They require fewer tune-ups, increase secondary voltage,
improve starting, eliminate irregular timing and dwell change with engine speed,
and increase plug life. Packages include vacuum advance electronic distributor
with high-performance advance curve, wiring harness, electronic control unit,
ballast resistor and installation instructions.
1 P3690427 Electronic Conversion Kit, 383/400 Big Block
1 P3690428 Electronic Conversion Kit, 426 Hemi, 426 Wedge, 413/440
Big Block
1 P3690426 Electronic Conversion Kit, Small Block

 

all that looks the same as what you would get from buying 440 source distributor fro $100 and the orange box from summit fro $45. be $100 cheaper buying them not in the kit. they kit adding something I dont see that's worth $100? maybe im missing something? I could even possibly go the MSD A6 box with the 440source distributor for liek $20 more. question is how hard are the MSD boxes to hook up? i heard the ballast resistors always go out whats the alternate to using these things? what do they even do?