440 Tranny question
03-15-2008, 06:27 PM
#2
I'm not familiar with newer motors, say, middle 80's.
However, what you describe is ABSOLUTELY true of not only 440's, but generally all pass car engines from at least the 60's and later.
Chrysler did not finish machine the pilot bushing recess on cranks destined for auto's.
There are two solutions:
Either get the crank finished, or
Buy an "undersized" O.D. bushing, and cut some off the front of the trans shaft. I don't remember how much, maybe 3/8" or so. I've never done this myself---the only car I owned with this situation came to me in that condition. I found out when I pulled the 4 speed to change the clutch. "Well, lookey there?? They cut off that shaft!!"
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, cutting the shaft isn't "correct" but it doesn't really seem to hurt anything, either. the pilot shaft is plenty long, so strength is no problem.
On a side note, I recomment carefully checking a new bell/ scattershield installation for "true." My original six pack car, which I put a LOT of miles on, began to develop a pattern--that car was very hard on pilot bushings, and I finally discovered that the FACTORY ORIGINAL bell was out of alignment with the block. There are two "planes" of possibility---the center hole and bolt pattern can be offset to one side, or the face of the bell can be "tilted" at some angle to the crank/ flywheel.
Having spent time with friends envolved in "Jeep" type 4x4 engine swaps and conversions, I can tell you that--back then--I was unimpressed with the "quality" of the likes of Lakewood.
While on this rant, having run a 340/ 4 speed and Jeep transfer case conversion in my '62 Landcruiser, a friend of mine and I both got incorrectly manufactured conversion shafts from Advance Adapters. Very, very, irritating.
However, what you describe is ABSOLUTELY true of not only 440's, but generally all pass car engines from at least the 60's and later.
Chrysler did not finish machine the pilot bushing recess on cranks destined for auto's.
There are two solutions:
Either get the crank finished, or
Buy an "undersized" O.D. bushing, and cut some off the front of the trans shaft. I don't remember how much, maybe 3/8" or so. I've never done this myself---the only car I owned with this situation came to me in that condition. I found out when I pulled the 4 speed to change the clutch. "Well, lookey there?? They cut off that shaft!!"
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, cutting the shaft isn't "correct" but it doesn't really seem to hurt anything, either. the pilot shaft is plenty long, so strength is no problem.
On a side note, I recomment carefully checking a new bell/ scattershield installation for "true." My original six pack car, which I put a LOT of miles on, began to develop a pattern--that car was very hard on pilot bushings, and I finally discovered that the FACTORY ORIGINAL bell was out of alignment with the block. There are two "planes" of possibility---the center hole and bolt pattern can be offset to one side, or the face of the bell can be "tilted" at some angle to the crank/ flywheel.
Having spent time with friends envolved in "Jeep" type 4x4 engine swaps and conversions, I can tell you that--back then--I was unimpressed with the "quality" of the likes of Lakewood.
While on this rant, having run a 340/ 4 speed and Jeep transfer case conversion in my '62 Landcruiser, a friend of mine and I both got incorrectly manufactured conversion shafts from Advance Adapters. Very, very, irritating.
03-15-2008, 06:58 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks, how would you determine a 440 that was hooked up to a 4spd, the guy that i am going through to buy my car and evreything i need has 400+ mopars cars & trucks from the 1950-1980, he has most of the 440 motors already pulled out of the cars that he isn't keeping for himself adn trannys as well. So would it be better to go with an automatic A727 or a 23 splines 833 4speed, its going into a 63 fury, the 440 he wants 500-700 a piece, the a727 he wants $85 a piece and the 4 speed $100-300, i think those are reasonable prices for the equipment what do you think, and also the car i am picking up next week for a grand, no motor no tranny, puchbutton auto i believe and used to have the poly318. and the body is in decent condition with very minor rust pretty good for nebraska where everythign is rusty
03-16-2008, 01:58 PM
#4
I'm not up on current prices, and they'll vary around the country. I assume you are just building a nice street car? You'll really have to decide whether to build an auto or stick yourself, but if it were me I'd put an auto in there.
I'ts probably cheaper and easier in the long run, and for me, I just can't shift anymore!!!.
However, factor this into the price:
Those old bodies had the old style rear ends with the tapered rear axles--look for a great big nut on the rear axle. I'd plan on putting a newer rear in there, so there's more money
Also, the old push-button autos used the weird front U joint (I can't remember the name of it) used on older Jeep Wagoneers. You need to go to a newer trans and get rid of THAT--at least in my opinion.
About the quickest way to tell if an engine was auto or stick is simply see if there's a pilot bushing installed. I doubt anyone is going to pull an engine and take the trouble to pull out a pilot bushing.
I don't remember anymore, how deep the crank is, but you could also make yourself a simple depth gauge, once you know how deep the "stick" crank socket is
Frankly, as I said, if it were me, I build an auto--and I'm a guy who drove 4 speeds all my younger days.
I'ts probably cheaper and easier in the long run, and for me, I just can't shift anymore!!!.
However, factor this into the price:
Those old bodies had the old style rear ends with the tapered rear axles--look for a great big nut on the rear axle. I'd plan on putting a newer rear in there, so there's more money
Also, the old push-button autos used the weird front U joint (I can't remember the name of it) used on older Jeep Wagoneers. You need to go to a newer trans and get rid of THAT--at least in my opinion.
About the quickest way to tell if an engine was auto or stick is simply see if there's a pilot bushing installed. I doubt anyone is going to pull an engine and take the trouble to pull out a pilot bushing.
I don't remember anymore, how deep the crank is, but you could also make yourself a simple depth gauge, once you know how deep the "stick" crank socket is
Frankly, as I said, if it were me, I build an auto--and I'm a guy who drove 4 speeds all my younger days.
04-06-2008, 08:12 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey guys,
I'm kind of wondering how this project has progressed along.
All the cars are neat, but I'm more prone to be interested in the old projects.
I had a 55 Plymouth with the original 259 V8. Bought a custom bell housing, had to ream the crank bore and install pilot (oilite bushing), diferent flywheel, clutch fork, throw out bearing and linkage, all to match a T10 four speed from a Pontiac. The project came out alright, but it was a lot of work just finding the right parts. I believe the clutch fork had to be from a 1936 Plymouth.
Good luck with your project.
I'm kind of wondering how this project has progressed along.
All the cars are neat, but I'm more prone to be interested in the old projects.
I had a 55 Plymouth with the original 259 V8. Bought a custom bell housing, had to ream the crank bore and install pilot (oilite bushing), diferent flywheel, clutch fork, throw out bearing and linkage, all to match a T10 four speed from a Pontiac. The project came out alright, but it was a lot of work just finding the right parts. I believe the clutch fork had to be from a 1936 Plymouth.
Good luck with your project.
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