734406pack

So after much work I finally acquired the 440 six pack my old man has been storing in his garage for the past 20 years lol. it is modded and I have some specs on it. looking to see what kind of power you guys may think it might be making. I will be swapping out the 340 out for this bad boy

its been bored 4.350 .30 over
11.5:1 comp ratio
Cam dynamics 7000+ cheater cam with .467/.483 lift duration is 352/380
as for the heads he said the machine guy turned them into stage 3 heads. don't know what that means and I can't find specs on stage 3 heads.
Six pack carbs edelbrock manifold.

I want to get aluminum heads but wish I knew the exact cc's of the heads on the motor at the moment. I was reading up on stealth heads but seeing a lot of mixed reviews.


thanks for the input guys.

RacerHog

425-450 on the H.P. would be my guess..... 6 pack is a cool factor for sure.... But I am sure a Victor manifold and a 950 Hp carb would make better power. But that dont have the cool factor now does it...

Iowan

You might check your cam specs again.

RacerHog

I just replaced the 3 with a 2.... But thats just me....

734406pack

Cam specs are correct. Cam dynamics 7000 plus. Cheater cam. It's an old school cam.

Drag Pak

Hellofa Stock Eliminator cam !

http://flag.blackened.net/mopar/camchart.html

Iowan

I did a quick serch on that cam, its more of a stocker class drag cam, very hard on valve train ( replacing springs every 30 pass's hard ) very narrow power band and an 1800+ rpm idle, Not a street strip cam at all!


I like this cam in a 440, I've got one in a 9.5 cr 452 that made 520 hp. 543trq. with worked stock heads. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dc...iew/make/dodge
You could gain 20 - 25 hp. with your 11 to 1 cr. With its 110 lobe separation it has wide power bands, both trq. and hp. and could use a 3400rpm converter, your cam will need a 5000+ rpm converter and a 4.88 rear gear.


I would not bother trying to use the cam you have now!

734406pack

That seems hella crazy. What street cam would you guy recommend. Street/strip. ?

Drag Pak

If those heads are done for Stock Eliminator racing, they are probably downright tremendous throughout the total lift range up to stock lift. So what Iowan recommends will give you the 0.100 ish additional flow cross section area and probably be gold in a Street/Strip application.

734406pack

So these are the heads on the motor. They appear to be motor home heads. I'm swapping the cam I currently have for the one recommended so even though these have been worked over I am still going to go for the 440 source aluminum heads. Or see maybe I can trade these for some goodie parts.

Drag Pak

Be aware that the 440 source heads in the past have required grinding for pushrod clearance (not sure if this only applies when using 3/8" pushrods)?. They have also required re-honing of the valve guide fit, so they will need attention and are not just out of the box bolt ons as advertised.

IF you check the flow claims, they are not that great. While they do report reasonable flow at 0.600 lift, it would take a 0.700 lift lobe to take full advantage of their port.



Take note of the fine print"(Capable of an easy 550 horsepower when used with our 500+ inch stroker kits) these have the potential to make 650-700+ horsepower with port work and upgrades."



But then it isn't my money or build!

734406pack

I am also reading that the Edelbrock heads have similar issues. My budget is about $1000 for now. I'm looking for its bolt on heads. Don't need to make crazy power with 450+ I'll be happy. With a decent head I should've making that. Also read that any aluminum head will flow better than stock irons. What heads you guys using?

Iowan

You can make 650 hp. with the factory cast iron heads!


The 440 source , Edelbrock , and Indy heads all have there problems, I'm doing a refresh on my race 440, first built in 91, it's a 4.15 stroke, 4.38 bore, custom 600 gram Ross pistons etc. and 915 heads. I've considered changing the heads but after looking at the three listed I decided to stay with my 915s. I had used the rocker setup on my 452 so I ordered new Harlen sharps, Manley race master vales, it will get new springs, retainers and keepers and hardened exhaust seats ( for e-85 ) and a little more blending in the ports.


If I was going to use the 440 source (never) or the Edelbrocks I would get the bare heads and put good parts in them, Indy has such poor customer service and problems with castings that I just don't need the hassle for a bracket motor. That's the way I feel about all three , just don't need the hassle and the 915s work.

Iowan

I would not give up on the heads you have yet! If you can take a picture of the back of the exhaust valve and the intake ports, I'm interested in the bowl work under the valve seat. If this has been done correctly you should have no problem making 500 + hp. using the cam I posted earlier.

734406pack

This is the only pic I have so far. Gonna take the motor apart hopefully next month. I need to get the crankshaft re surfaced and bearing installed because the one in the motor is for auto and I want to use the 4 speed I got.

Drag Pak

What ^^^^ he said.

A fellow here in Division 6 has a 69 Dart with a 440 that runs 10.40's in Stock Eliminator.

That is with a stock AVS, stock iron intake(no port matching), and stock unported iron heads(any valve grind centered on guide allowed/no porting)!

So, I also believe your iron heads will be fine. Just be very careful to whomever you choose to send them to for freshening.

Iowan

I noticed that your rockers are stamped steel for a hydraulic cam , the cam I posted is mechanical you will need adjustable rockers. I don't use hydraulic cams on performance builds.

Drag Pak

Note the adjustable pushrods. Minimally sufficient, but "Old School " acceptable.

734406pack

I'm thinking replace camshaft. Possibly do some light hand porting and see what kind of power it makes. Might have to upgrade the valves prints for that cam you listed, the spec sheet my dad has says it has 520 lift dual springs

Iowan

I should have the comp # for the springs I used, but it's in my toolbox at the shop, I'll let you know tomorrow.

Iowan

Oops grandson playing with the phone

734406pack

So you are saying I wouldn't need to get new rockers for this cam? What would happen if I didn't replace the rockers and ran the mechanical cam?

Drag Pak

Probably not for the street with a solid lifter cam. Large variances in fit and ratios. Your engine probably came from a class were only stock rocker arms were allowed. High maintenance, but they did what they had to do.

Not saying it can't be done!

The adjustable pushrods are quite desirable.

There are many good hydraulic cams (Hughes Engines) for your application where you could comfortably use all your current stuff.

Your choice.

734406pack

how aggressive is this cam? Duration @ .050" lift: 250/256 (int/exh)
Valve lift: .519/.524 (int/exh)


I have been breaking my brain on trying to understand cam specs. and matching the rockers to the cam 1.5/1.6 etc.. so much more different coming into the old school world. I remember on my 01 trans am I had a 239/242 603/609 cam and it sounded/performed aggressive as hell and I loved it. and I just want the same for the challenger. I don't get the lower lift.. haven't really seen a mopar cam with higher lift then 500's.


I don't really want to spend a lot of money on rockers as I still need to do some other work like painting and some other thing that does not involve the motor. but I definitely need to swap out that stock eliminator cam in it.


Thanks for the help.

Iowan

If you look at the specs of the cam I posted it's just about perfect for mildly ported bb head's. They flow best below .560 lift , the duration will give you good rpm. and a 800 rpm. idle.
The thing made 500 ft lbs o torque @ 3500 rpm! It is an exalent 4 speed cam.

734406pack

Just with that I would have to buy rockers right? 1.5 or 1.6 ratio?

Iowan

I would get 1.5, I also like Comps set up for big block's on a street car. But that's up to you.

Just to give you a head's up, I have a very strong bias for mechanical camshafts, I was hoping another member could jive some advice on a hydraulic cam. Hydraulic cams are always a compromise in my opinion.

734406pack

looking into mechanical lifters now... lol it never ends!! at least I don't need pushrods since the ones I have are adjustable

Drag Pak

As cast Mopar cylinder heads tend to flow very well in lower lift ranges.

I know (many, many hours of testing) the as cast 340/360 heads flow great until 0.350+ ish lift and then go spastic at about 0.375.

I'll assume (oops) the big block heads have similar characteristics.

For this reason I believe the longer duration, quick ramps and not so high lift ranges work well in the Mopar camp.

A VERY GOOD valve grind/prep, works amazingly well on the as cast Mopar head increasing low lift flow to excellent levels.

734406pack

just want to confirm with you guys what I am going to do to make sure all is well haha


Cam
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A30XU5Y510T9EB (the one recommended)


rockers
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER
or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A2RA9SXXTGVE9R


lifters
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=A533WGTS0FAOA


as for the rods I have adjustable so I don't think I need em!!


let me know what you guys think.