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I have a 1979 Dodge B300 Extended Cargo Van.
It has a 5.9 Liter LA360 2bbl V8 engine and a A727 transmission.
I just had this transmission rebuilt for the second time in under 10,000 miles. It was rebuilt twice by the same shop in California.
Long story short... I installed it and there's no reverse and I'm certain it's not shifting manually into 2nd or 1st because I don't feel or here it shift. I think Drive is the only gear that works.
It feels sticky between park and reverse, it thunks into drive and drives forward smooth but nothing else works... No reverse at all!
I also noticed it has a very bad leak coming from the converter so I know either way I'll have to pull it.
This is such a simple install and I really can't think of anything I could've done wrong for reverse not to work! Also, what could've caused it to start leaking so bad???
I installed the tranny and did everything according to the haynes manual...
I bolted the tranny to the motor, bolted it to the frame, adjusted the linkage, bolted the flexplate to the converter making sure the marks were lined up according to the ATSG guide, installed the driveshaft, filled it with 7.9 liters of Dexron VI and tested start up in park and neutral... Everything checked out.
I remember when I bolted the flex plate to the converter it pulled the converter out a slight amount but I don't think more than is allowed...
Make sure all the linkage is installed and adjusted..... Check the Band adjustment as per you book instructions.... Sounds like the front pump seal may have gotten damaged when the torque converter was installed. ???
Thanks for replying, I was starting to worry after having found help requests unanswered for more than a year!
The shop that rebuilt it installed the converter(apparently the part that had failed the first rebuild...) and they had bolted a bracket to the housing to hold the converter in place and I was very careful when installing the unit. I didn't unbolt that little bracket until the whole unit was one inch from the block... The only time the converter moved was when I bolted it to the flex plate and that gap from the converter being all the way seated to the flex plate was 9/32"....
I guess it's possible they may have damaged it during install but doubt it since the guy specifically told me when I picked up the tranny to be very careful with the converter because I could damage the seal and I was! That to me indicates they realize the importance of not damaging the pump seal so I don't think it was damaged from the shop. It wasn't leaking at first, so whatever happened after install damaged the seal... It could've been something else they did or didn't do though.
As for the linkage, I adjusted the gearshift linkage but didn't touch the throttle rod... I didn't mess with it really because the shop that had rebuilt it last actually installed it in the vehicle and had it adjusted for the same tranny. Could the throttle rod being off not cause reverse to work? I drove it for about 1000 yards and no faster than 10mph... Doesn't the throttle rod affect the performance at high speed? It's only for when the throttle is wide open correct?
Either way...
I pulled the tranny yesterday and dropped the pan and found little bits of metal and a bunch of greyish, metallic looking paste/sludge on the magnet and also some little black bits on the filter and valve body...
I will also point out that the converter is seized in the tranny! The play is 1/2"... I can't pull it out by hand and will be working on removing it today!
I'd like to mention that I'm not sure if the converter was dry or not when I filled it with oil.
I filled the tranny with about 7 liters of oil at first and then adjusted the level according to the dipstick...
So far I have:
1: No reverse
2: seized converter
3: metal bits in the drain pan
I'm not 100% sure but I also don't think it was shifting into 1st or second...
It moved fine in drive and when I shift to 2nd or 1st it didn't change. It still moved forward like in drive. I couldn't feel or here it shift so... I thought I'd mention that...
Looks like I'm going to have to disassemble it myself.
There's no way I can afford to pay someone else to rebuild it again. I'm already 2 rebuilds and $3000 into this tranny!
I was finally able to yank the converter out ...
The pictures speak for themselves...
I see a damaged race seized onto the converter shaft and the seal is completely broken and detached.
The race I assume went to the pump bearing?
How could that damage have happened???
I'm going to pull the pump and see what the damage is, I'll return with an update and pics...
Took the pump and pan off...
lots of metal flakes and bits but not sure from where...
That thing I called a race earlier that's seized onto the converter shaft ground into one side of the pump...
Here's what I've found so far... Is the band suppose to have that much of a gap?? Looks ground into by the ring on the tc shaft... The ring that's seized on the converter shaft ground into the pump orifice... This would explain the fine metallic sludge but not the bits and pieces of metal... Looks like a little contact wear... Is this normal?
Now that I know what it's called it's the 'oil pump bushing' that seized onto the converter shaft and ground away at the inside surface of the pump...
This is where the metallic sludge came from, also some of the smaller metal flakes but I still found some larger bits of metal that kinda look like weld splatter...
I think I may have bent the flex plate during initial removal(before the rebuild).
If the flex plate is bent I can see how it could wobble and damage the seal and stick into the oil pump bushing but could that be the reason there's no reverse??
Maybe it's the converter shaft that's off a bit???
Could the stator and body(pump housing) be misaligned?
It's a new converter supposedly. That was the reason for the rebuild, the torque converter in the last rebuild failed after roughly 10,000 miles so I took it back to the same shop and they said the converter failed and said they replaced everything!
The parts list on the receipt I received shows a new converter, rebuild kit and I don't think anything else, I'm not sure how extensive the rebuild was but I do remember looking those two parts up and finding they are the cheapest ones from Auto Zone so... I can't find the receipt, I want to check to see if they replaced more than the converter ...
I did however not know a single thing at the time I removed the tranny and rigged up a ratchet strap to the tranny from the axle... I know how ridiculous this is going to sound but, I didn't realize I had to unbolt the flexplate from the converter before attempting to remove the tranny from the vehicle and I cranked on both sides of that thing with the ratchet until I realized I was probably causing some damage... This was one of those learning moments so...
The point is the flex plate might be bent a little bit...
I measured two opposing sides of the flex plate distance from the block to the plate and one side was off by 1/32" , is that a problem??
I'm not sure about the other opposing sides of the plate, I'll be measuring that in a little bit...
So either I tweaked the flex plate or it's a crooked converter?
Can someone tell me if there's something wrong with this picture???
If I'm not mistaken there should only be one of those spacers and the three tabs should be in the three holes towards the drum correct???
I'm pretty sure I figured it out!!!
Take a look at the pics, I'll comment under each one... Take a look at the diagram because behind the 'front annulus gear assembly' goes ONE 'thrust washer'! This is where the ONE 'thrust washer' in the diagram is suppose to go... See the holes where the tabs on the washers go into??? This is how it was assembled by the shop I paid to rebuild it twice!!! What?! There's even a stain from where it use to sit! This is what threw everything off balance! This is what its' suppose to look like according to common sense and the Technical Guides diagram... Wow just wow... This is part of the damage cause by the gap created by the two washers incorrectly installed behind the 'front annulus gear assembly'. Ill' probably have to replace this... Right?? I'll provably have to replace the converter also? It's a cheap one but if it works it works... I can heat or cut the bushing off... What about the oil pump body/housing?? Too damaged?? Probably a bad idea to reuse it...
I'm going to keep taking it down and see what else I find...
So as I research this further I've noticed that in the manual (ATSG Tech Guide) it shows that the bushing that sits in the pump body(the one that's seized onto the converter) is suppose to be 'punched' in place with a blunt punch into the pump body and the shop didn't do that!
I can't believe I'm finding so many mistakes!
I really don't want to believe it but I feel like I was sabotaged... or maybe the shop owner had a rookie employee rebuild it for him...
I'm definitely going to have a talk with the guy I gave money to rebuild this thing!
The picture shows the bushing needs to be punched into the pump body. Those two little 'notches' on opposite sides of the 'bushing bore' hold the bushing in place when punched... It doesn't look like they "staked" the bushing to the pump body...
Between not staking the bushing to the pump body and creating a gap by installing two thrust washers where only one was needed it threw everything off balance and caused damage.
I'm still not sure how this could cause reverse not to work....
Maybe the valve body is clogged with metal and seal bits???
05-20-2021, 11:33 AM
