318 to 440 conversion check list help
06-17-2009, 07:57 PM
#1
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318 to 440 conversion check list help
About to convert my 318 to 440. I am trying to create more of a street performer than a 1/4 mile car. A few questions about what I need to do while everything is ripped out. I would rather do some things once than regret not doing themwhile everything is apart.
- What is the weight difference between a 318 and 440?
- Do I need to change out the torsion bars? I've heard from guys much more knowledgable than I that it is not necessary.
- Do I have to change the rear leaf springs? All research states an extra leaf with the BB cars. Again I've been told it is not needed.
- Are the schumacker motor mounts sufficiant and strong enough for the big block, or should I just get the BB K member?
- Do I need to weld in frame stabilizers? Pros and Cons
- I was told not to believe the hype about the drum to disc conversion. Any thoughts.Bigger engine = bigger brakes
- Is the radiator change mandatory? My 22 inch radiator is brand new.
- Going from a 904 to a 727. Will it bolt right in? I know about the drive shaft length change.
- I believe my rear is an 8 1/4. Do I need the 8 3/4. My gears seem fine for what I plan on doing with the car.
- Finally the 440 is really fresh (less than 10k miles). Should I perform any mandatory modifications while it is outside the car?
06-17-2009, 08:25 PM
#2
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- about 120-150lbs
- Yes, but get one size larger than BB for better handling
- Yes, its not for the weight, its for the axle "wrap-up" that the extra torque will cause.
- Yes
- ?
- You like stopping? Front conversion good enough.
- Yes
- Should
- Is it a sure grip or posi yet, you'll need one
- Its easier now.
06-18-2009, 05:25 PM
#4
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You'll need a 727 that has a BB bell housing. You will want to run a 4 core radiator to help cool the motor along with a 7 blade water pump (I think all BB motors had them when they came with AC). You'll want an 8 3/4 or dana 60 rear axle. With teh extra weight of the BB and the power it will create to push you forward, you'll want to think about upgrading to disc brakes up front to help out with stopping.
07-09-2009, 09:32 AM
#6
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sending unit and fuel line
I have heard of this before. Can you explain the fuel line sending unit thing? Is it because more gas will be needed?
07-16-2009, 06:59 AM
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There are two sizes of fuel supply openings on these sending units. 5/16 and 3/8. 3/8 is recommended for the big block. You can pick up these sending units on ebay for around 50 buckolas. I,am just starting to research swaping my 273 ,904 in my 68 Satellite for a 440 727. Maybe we could talk. Ken
Last edited by 68satellite; 07-16-2009 at 07:02 AM.
07-16-2009, 08:24 AM
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There are two sizes of fuel supply openings on these sending units. 5/16 and 3/8. 3/8 is recommended for the big block. You can pick up these sending units on ebay for around 50 buckolas. I,am just starting to research swaping my 273 ,904 in my 68 Satellite for a 440 727. Maybe we could talk. Ken
You can, of course, order new fuel lines through reproduction places, but on top of the cost, you are looking at $35 for shipping alone. Check your local area for a filter service company; they are usually industrial companies. The one in my area makes all kinds of hardline and rubber hoses for any application. I took in my original fuel line and they bent a new one to a pretty close match (out of mild steel) for $27 (material and labor). That will save you some serious bucks. If you feel like being really fancy, you CAN get the lines bent in seamless stainless steel, but be aware your material cost will double; however, you will never have a problem with fuel flow.
I got my sending unit from Van's Auto. http://www.vansauto.com/
Now it doesn't sound like you are going to need more than 3/8" dia lines, but it is possible to get that made too. Much more expensive.
If you are upgrading your fuel supply lines, you will also need to buy a new fuel line clip set. It will be a real pain in the butt to try to get that 3/8" line to stay in 5/16" clips. Plus the kit is only like $18 through Year One anyway.
Hope that is of some help. I just replaced all my fuel supply things in my 67 Belvedere.
07-24-2009, 09:27 AM
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I've got a 69 Sat that was a factory 318, and someone dropped in a 383. The engine sits to low and at an angle, the steering linkage rubs the bottom of the oil pan. The right side of the oil pan is lower than the left.
I'm just investigating how to correct this, and am new to the resto game. Some information i was told this morning by a frame guy, but i can't verify if true or not yet.
I've been told that the small block vin cars came with a different k-member than the big block vins, and that the motor mounts sit slightly differently. I also understand that there is a conversion kit available/required to make the engine sit correctly. I don't know where to look for this, but would sure appreciate any information from anyone thats done this before for both myself and the originator of this post.
Cal G (69 Sport Satellite)
I'm just investigating how to correct this, and am new to the resto game. Some information i was told this morning by a frame guy, but i can't verify if true or not yet.
I've been told that the small block vin cars came with a different k-member than the big block vins, and that the motor mounts sit slightly differently. I also understand that there is a conversion kit available/required to make the engine sit correctly. I don't know where to look for this, but would sure appreciate any information from anyone thats done this before for both myself and the originator of this post.
Cal G (69 Sport Satellite)
07-24-2009, 09:36 AM
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http://www.engine-swaps.com/ this will tell you all you need to know about swaps, good luck. Their name is Schumacher Creative Services.
07-24-2009, 11:58 AM
#15
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I spoke to a tech at Schumacher, he cleared it up for me. The K member is identical regardless what 8 cly you have. The frame mounts welded to the car are identical. The engine mounts are different for a big block and small block and you cannot bolt the wrong mount to an engine..
He tells me that i likely have a C-Body oil pan which is prob about 2.5 inches or more in depth where the steering linkage crosses, and the correct oil pan for a b-body should only be 1.5 to 1.75 inches deep.
very nice people at Schumacher.
Cal G
He tells me that i likely have a C-Body oil pan which is prob about 2.5 inches or more in depth where the steering linkage crosses, and the correct oil pan for a b-body should only be 1.5 to 1.75 inches deep.
very nice people at Schumacher.
Cal G
07-25-2009, 05:05 PM
#16
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Here it is..
Well the story goes like this. My friend has a concourse presedential chrysler limo that needs an engine overhaul about 15 years ago. He happens upon this crate engine (1977 440) by an even more unbelievable story that I can even share. Let's just say a guy named "The Chin" helped himaquire it. He sends it to get cleaned up and painted and the guy uses a can of Packard green painjt he finds in the back seat. That's why it is green. It was dropped in my buddies car and driven from upstate NY to Virginia and back, then pulled and sat until I came along. It has 413 heads that were polished and worked, and an Imperial intake manifold. It needs alot of love but it is all there.
If I could get any help on serial #s or information that is noticed by the pics all is appreciated.
Oh yeah.My and the family at a show last week.
If I could get any help on serial #s or information that is noticed by the pics all is appreciated.
Oh yeah.My and the family at a show last week.
Last edited by 68 Sat; 07-26-2009 at 05:19 PM.
08-04-2009, 01:24 PM
#21
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Parts list
I'm trying to wrap my head around my parts list. Can I swap the following parts from my 318 to the 440?
- Alternator with bracket
- Starter
- Linkage to carberator
- transmission mounts A904 to 727
08-10-2009, 08:35 PM
#22
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I have torn down the engine i believe as far as I am going to. I took a couple pics of the heads and am concerned about one port that seems corroded. Any comments and feed back is appreciated. Also one of the push rods appears to have some small ring scratches on them. I have to keep on scrapin...
08-11-2009, 07:39 AM
#25
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sitting block
More than 10 years. All the the rocker arms and cam seems fresh with no rust or corrosion.
I had a 318 that sat for 20 years that turned easier than this one
I had a 318 that sat for 20 years that turned easier than this one
08-11-2009, 08:56 AM
#27
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rust in heads
I agree the drivers side head seems alot more rusty than the passenger side. The road look fine when I inspect them, but I am concerned about the heads. They are 413 heads from a 1965 Chrysler Imperial. Can I or maybe a better question is should I attempt to clean/scrape some of that rust out. I was hoping to leave the heads on the block and not mess with them..
08-18-2009, 09:41 PM
#29
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That block needs to be cleaned up and inspected!!
After 10 years all your seals are done, you need to get new ones unless you like to dig into your engine a couple weeks after you start running it.
I'm sure it got more issues in the heads. And how does the bottom end look like? Mains and rod bearings and so on? Lots of things to check just to be safe and not do it twice. At least thats what I would do. And have to with my 318 that looks very similar (just smaller
).
Tomi
After 10 years all your seals are done, you need to get new ones unless you like to dig into your engine a couple weeks after you start running it.
I'm sure it got more issues in the heads. And how does the bottom end look like? Mains and rod bearings and so on? Lots of things to check just to be safe and not do it twice. At least thats what I would do. And have to with my 318 that looks very similar (just smaller
).Tomi
08-19-2009, 07:56 AM
#30
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Started pricing the rebuild kit for 30 over at summit. Also spoke to the guys at 440 source about their replacement stealth heads. I think if the block is ok and I do most of the work myself, I can still have a killer engine for less than what a new replacement would run. Plus I'm enjoying the work and satisfaction of doing it myself...
