burnoutking-1

Hey all, So I recently picked up a '74 Challenger Rallye with a 360(originally 318). Guy I bought it off was pretty much finished reassembly, wiring is all in, but there is no power anywhere.

Just wondering what the possible causes could be. I bought a new starter relay today as it still has the original anyways and may be the problem. Already checked the fusible link, pulled the connectors on the bulkhead connector on the firewall, and they looked okay. The seller thinks this is the problem though. I also thought of bad ground, but you would think even a bad ground somewhere wouldn't cause complete loss of power, unless it was the battery ground I guess, but the grounds I have checked seem okay.

What else could cause this problem? Just trying to get any and all possible causes, for when I get around to fixing it.

Any and all ideas welcome.

Thanks,
Cory.
.

burnoutking-1

Well, it's not the relay.

condor74

Do you have power going to the bulkhead connector. I am not completely sure on your Challenger bug on all the 60s Mopars I have worked all the power runs through the Ammeter on the dashboard. If that is not hooked up, you will not have power to anything. Do you have a wiring diagram? Of course make sure your grounds are all good. If the ammeter is bad you can just attach the power and output wires together to complete the circuit and power should be restored.

condor74

I just looked at an online wireing diagram. Battery cable from battery goes to the starter. Another wire comes off the positive cable and goes to the starter relay. From the starter relay the wire goes through a fuseable link and through the bulkhead. From the bulk head it goes to the ammeter. After the ammeter it branches out to ignition switch and other various items that need constant power including the alternator, and light switch. I would make sure the ammeter has power.

burnoutking-1

Yeah, I will check the ammeter. I have found a lot of info today on problems with the ammeter, and the bulkhead, and melting wires, and fires and whatnot. Hope it doesn't get to that point.

Haven't checked much under the dash yet. Just took a quick look at the firewall bulkhead from inside, and looked for unhooked wires.

Thanks for the reply.

1974Challenger

On a side note...your car looks really sharp! It makes me want to take off my bumper protectors too.

theomahamoparguy

here's a site that will answer yur questions. www.madelectrical.com
read all the technical info on their site. It is very interesting and informative. especially the mopar info!

burnoutking-1

Thanks! No more bumperettes, no more fillers, moved the bumpers in tighter, and what a difference.

burnoutking-1

So it doesn't look like I even have any power going to the bulkead connector. Would this point to a bad battery ground/engine ground or missing ground somewhere?

The wierd thing is, when I pulled my guage cluster out to get at the ammeter, I noticed the second hand on the clock was moving a little off and on. Would this just be electricity from me, or does it mean there is slight current there, and if so what does that mean. Grounds again.

The only thing I can do, is turn the engine over by putting a cable on the battery positive to the starter relay.

condor74

The power is supposed to come from the battery to the starter solenoid. the solenoid should have one wire from the positive battery cable and one that goes to the starter. From the same terminal that the battery cable attaches another cable should go through a fuseable link then to the bulk head connector. Check power at each of those points and you should find your problem. If you want you can post a picture of your battery cables and harness and where they are run to, then maybe we could point out something. Good luck ....ps great looking car

440roadrunner

You should be able to run this down in short order with a simple test lamp. It's not clear to me what you've done so far.

To verify that the battery and main cables work, try jumpering the fender / firewall mount start relay. Just "throw" a wrench/ screwdriver across the only two exposed (largest terminals.) The engine should crank.

Now ground your test lamp to the block, and follow the lead from the start relay --through the fuse link-- into the bulkhead connector. Probe that connection at the bulkhead, and it should have power.

If so, jump down to the fuse block and probe around for power

If not, it's out in the "main stuff" I mentioned, or it's in the ammeter connections, or might be in a major "in harness splice" that's taped up in the dash harness. These are factory, major, welded splices, and THEY DO AND HAVE FAILED

Here's some damn poor diagrams

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74ChallengerA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1974/74ChallengerB.JPG

If you had power at the bulkhead out in the engine bay, now get up into the dash or pull the cluster out so you can get to the ammeter. If you only have power on one connector, read below:



If you follow the bottom wire coming off the ammeter, it goes to the left AND GOES TO one of these big splices. A red takes off up from that splice and IS THE MAIN FEED to the ign switch.

The red continuing from the splice to the left, off the page, and to the next page is the MAIN FEED to the hot fuses in the box

The black coming off the splice, going straight down, and left off the page, goes to no 18 of the bulkhead connector, and on to the main stud of the alternator

the other black going straight down from the splice, and off to the right, is the MAIN HOT FEED to the headlight switch. There's a breaker mounted on the light switch, notice that there is no headlight fuse.

ALL THE ABOVE MENTIONED circuit is on "one side" (the alternator side) of the ammeter.

If the ammeter is bad, disconnected, or the wiring ends have broken inside the rubber crimp ends, there will be no power.

Now the BATTERY side of the ammeter comes off the top of the ammeter, off to the left, down, and off the page. It goes to the no 16 connector of the bulkhead, to the fuse link, and to the battery.

268RTs4ME

Since its a 74, do you have the seat belt interlock system on it? Is there a little reseat box on the firewall passenger side with a little red reset button on it? I Had the same problem with my 74 roadrunner, and had to replace the interlock plastic box which is located by the glove box, mounted to inside of dash itself. had to take glove box out and look to your left. Might be your problem.

burnoutking-1

[quote=440roadrunner;62114]

To verify that the battery and main cables work, try jumpering the fender / firewall mount start relay. Just "throw" a wrench/ screwdriver across the only two exposed (largest terminals.) The engine should crank.




The engine does not crank when I cross the terminals. Doesn't the ignition key have to be on and have power to be able to jump the starter from the relay?

I also ran a wire directly from the fusible link to the battery, and got a little sparking/resistance, when I turned the key on my oil pressure guage went right up, and when I tried turning the key the ammeter would drop then go up when released, but still wouldn't crank/click or anything.

If I ground my testlight, I get power nowhere. If I run it from the battery+ It lights up basically everywhere.

Is there a dead short somewhere?

Not sure what it all means, and I will probably have to take it to someone who does.

condor74

Your fuse link should come from a wire that is hooked to the starter relay terminal. That same terminal will also have wire that goes directly to the positive battery cable. So by hooking that fuse link to the battery, you diagnosed most of your problem...Either your positive battery cable does not have a wire that links it to the starter relay or your fuse link wire is not making contact with the starter relay. Your positve battery cable should have the large cable going down to the large terminal on the starter and have a smaller wire that goes to the starter relay. At the starter relay terminal another wire will also be on the stud that goes to your fuse link wire into your bulk head.
Just for your info the there will be 3 other plugs on the starter relay. 1 goes to the neutral start switch on the transmission, another comes from the ignition switch and the other goes down to the starter to energize the solenoid.

I hope that helps. I am sorry I know I rambled a bit and repeated myself..I wish I was local I would come over and get it going for you.

burnoutking-1

There is a heavy wire going directly to the starter from the battery + , and then one comes up from the starter to the relay. The fusible link is on its own post. And then the ignition and ground wires.

I was wondering if it is possible the previous guy had wired it wrong(he did have the ignition and ground wires backwards on the relay), and I have tried a few things with no luck yet. Like I said I did get the oil press. guage to work and the ammeter bounced when I turned the key, but this could have been me shorting something out.

I will take a pic tomorrow and post it.

Thanks.

440roadrunner

Here's how the relay should be wired:

The battery feed coming from the starter AND the fuse link should BOTH be on the big stud

Only one wire should be on the "square" (smaller bare) terminal, and it goes to the starter small solenoid terminal

The two push-on connectors go to the ign switch in start, the other goes to clutch safety (stick) or neutral safety (torqueflite) Those two do not matter, they can be switched.

I think you've found the problem.

burnoutking-1

Yes I did! Thanks. I fired it, but still can't crank it with the key. I guess I need to see if the solenoid feed is wired wrong or something. Could also be the neutral safety, because the relay doesn't even click.

The reason why nothing like headlights or anything worked when I tried the same thing before, is because they weren't grounded(didn't notice till now). I was on the right track, but got derailed because of these things not working. This time around I just assumed I needed a battery feed to the fusible link, and as soon as I ground the headlight and it came on, I got alittle excited, but when i cranked the key and nothing....I just checked for spark to make sure the ignition was at least working, and once I seen spark, I poured some fuel in the carb, jumped the starter, and it roared to life. Not too bad for an engine thats been sitting for a few years.

But I'm rambling now. Will keep posted on updates. I have a 360/410 that I built and is in my mud truck that is going in the car as soon as spring hits.

Thanks for all the input.

condor74

Great to hear it fired. keep us up to date on your progress.