MReeves

My friend Marty took the Barracuda bracket racing two or three weeks ago and he broke a rocker arm.... We got another from Indy and yesterday we decided to replace it and have that car ready for the Big Bracket season here in Florida..... Well little did we know how bad it was... When we removed the rocker arm shaft we found another valve spring completely loose from the valve with the retainer and both keepers in the spring as they were installed... Just no valve ..... OK so now the head must come off.... Once that was done the carnage was worse than we expected.... Head came off he valve and was shoved back into the intake.... Valve stem had poked three holes in the piston.... And the block had three cracks in it..... So just continued to remove the engine...... Got that done and called Vic my engine guy... He was working at the shop so we just loaded up all the pieces and took to him... He thinks he can salvage the head and sleeve the block.... So looks like at the least it will be a piston, another rocker arm, Sleeve the block and probably replace all the valve keepers??? Don't know yet... Motor has only 30 runs on it since it was freshened... So all the rest should be OK.... Photos to come later.....

mr340

all i can say is OUCH!! I guess it could have been worse ( not that that makes it any less painful).

Mr.4spd

So the broken rocker and lost valve were on separate cylinders? Spooky. I'd high five you if I could by the way, I think breaking stuff is pretty cool.

RacerHog

Sorry to hear MReeves.....
Hope you can find out why the valve got away from their keepers?
Hope it Didn't hurt the head too bad or bend the rod or crack the crank?
Will keep our fingers crossed for y'all....

What track do you guys got too thats closest? Lakeland, Orlando?

On a side note: the Mopars wear doing well in Ohio until they running to fast.

MReeves

This may be easier.... http://s882.photobucket.com/user/mre...?sort=3&page=1

MReeves

No they were all on #3..... The intake broke the adjuster and pulled it thru the rocker arm.... the roller tip broke on the exhaust and caused all the carnage.... another note the rockers were new.... Less than 20 passes on them.....

Got a question??? Why do you think breaking stuff is cool????? this may well cost me over $3,000. Is that cool? I just don't understand? please explain....

MReeves

Think the roller tip broke on the rocker first and this allowed the tip of the rocker arm to "ride" on the retainer and that allowed the whole mess to get started.... There were no "grooves" on the inside of the keepers.... the stem looked like it just slid out and dropped the valve and the rest is history.... We will know more once Vic has it torn down...

Our closest track is Orlando Speed World.... app 1 hour away....

RacerHog

Wow...Keep us posted on what you find down in the lowerend?
Your rite....That dose not look good at all....
At first glance... I said a very bad word!!!!

Question: Did he say it broke going out the back door?
Thats what it looks like?
just a hunch...

RacerHog

Hope the Rockers were not those off shore one?
But Man... All these roller rocker arm problems with our Mopars really sucks..

MReeves

Yes it was an 1/8 mile race and he was almost there....

I bet your word was the same as mine...

MReeves

We ordered them from Indy Cyl Head..... I hope they are not selling those... If they are I will be changing them out for sure!!!!

RacerHog

Those Indy heads are just like the others...

You have to go threw them even if they look good....

I had a set of there 440 head bit me, and they did the work on them. Got them back here to SO-CAl and found the stems where all over the place as well as the CC's...

Luckily Bob Lamback was able to fix them for me... But my customer was not happy with the bill.... However in the long run he was ok with it....

MReeves

Hopefully engine guy will have some good news when he tears it down......

TVLynn

That sucks... If it was a rocker failure ? I would replace all of them

Drag Pak

ICH has been getting a pretty BAD reputation lately, as thoroughly noted on YB.

MReeves

Seems like they have lost their quality control.... These rocker arms have less than 30 runs on them..... And a intake and exhaust both have failed.... Things that make you go ... Hummmmmmmm ???

RacerHog

Everything over at YB is an argument.... And 99.9%.....

Mr.4spd

The money end of it sucks, agreed. I don't understand it myself, maybe after all my years of carnage it's just how I deal with it. When something blows up on me (which is way too often) the first thing that happens is uncontrolled laughter, kind of like a crazy person. Then I call my buddies and they come over and drink my beer while I fix it. No offense intended, just offering my point of view.

MReeves

No offense taken I just didn't understand your view of it.... Now I do and that's fine..... I usually cuss some and then get to work trying to figure out why it happened... Then get it fixed and forget about it.... Then go out and beat the hell out of it again!!!!!!!

78D200

At least this kind of stuff doesn't get you down Mack. Having friends and knowing people in the business local to you is a huge help.

Do you think you'll have to back together in time for the bracket race? (may have been asked and I missed it)

MReeves

Not sure yet.... All depends on how bad it really is.... I do have a spare block but sold my Stroker kit and spare engine that sat in my garage for over three years... Just my luck... Sell it and then need it..... The real pisser is the Barracuda sat there in the garage hurt bad while I was selling the motor... If I had known I would not have sold the engine.... Just my luck.....

pro-tech

Wow Mack, It looks like a bad day for sure, But it seems like the people winning are the ones that break stuff, all part of the game. Right? It is much better if your winning and not breaking things but it seems it doesnt always work out that way. You have to run hard if your going to win.Hope it all works in your favor and you get it running for the brackets... I remember I was up against a 454 Chevelle with my 340 Charger and thought my day was over. At the end of the track (1/4 mile ) I was 5 cars ahead and had both feet on the brakes as to not break out. The kid came to me in the pits and said wow thats a good running big block.. I said it a small block 340. He said No way, how did you beat me. I said you should of smoked me. He had all the toys in his car real lopey cam and all. Come to find out he was shifting at 4500 rpms and shifting slow like he was driving grandma to church.. I ran 11.4 he ran a 13.9 The next week he dropped back a class and did pretty well...Bill

TVLynn

Winning yes. But we pay premium $$ for parts WE should not be sold Chinese junk

MReeves

You said a mouthful!!!!!!!!

Moparbob

I've been a Mopar Competition Engine Builder for the past 30 years, I'll leave my Shop's name out of this....I just do not need anymore work....nonetheless I may be able to shed some light on this unfortunate circumstance.

Respectfully here, and IMO, take it for that.
What knocks the Head off a Valve.... is Valve "Bounce" on the Valve Seat from incorrect Valve Spring Pressure, or Spring Rate, or just plain old "Floating" the Valves, which sets up a destructive Harmonic in the Valvetrain. It'll just break a Rocker Arm if you are lucky....worse things like knocking the Head off a "one piece" SS Manley Valve in more severe cases as yours.

The INDY 440-1 Arms are satisfactory for most base Race Profile Mechanical Roller Cams(220# to 240# Seat....550-600# over the nose), however marginal at best above that.... unless close attention to tip geometry & lash is maintained.

* May I ask what Cam profile you were running, the Valvespring Installed Seat Pressures and Spring "rate" as installed ?
* Is it possible a Valve Spring went away in operation....causing the valvetrain disconnect ?
* May I ask your Thermal Stabilization procedure ? (I might have some tips to prevent this in future.)

I feel your pain, ain't no fun....that said, as always when these unfortunate events occur....IMO, the most important thing is to VERIFY what happened, so as corrective actions can be implemented before a next time ?

Granted, INDY Rockers are NOT the absolute best....just saying....in my experience on most applications, they "should" have been fine.....however, I am wondering if there may be another problem present ??.... which by simply "masking" it over with stronger Rockers is.... again IMO, recipe for yet further problems.

As an example here;
I have 540 inch stuff out there at 850 hp using heavily ported(by me) INDY "SR" Heads, std offset Rockers...in fact the old "Crane "Golds"....running 8's at the Mopars at the Strip Show in Las Vegas.....THAT Engine is 14 years old !
Yes, I refreshen it every 300-400 runs, and it gets a new set of Crane's every 3rd season, but 'Nuff said...you get my point here...if Crane Golds can live ??

pro-tech

I agree 100%... They call it outsourcing I call it Bill

MReeves

Thanks for all your input.... I will forward this to my engine builder... I'm sure he does all this and even more.... he has built and raced BB Mopars in SC for many years and has several of those statues of Wally Parks to show for it... He like you is intent of discovering why it happened so we can eliminate it..... Thanks for your comments and concerns....