Royal Purple Oil
02-13-2014, 09:57 AM
#1
Mopar Fanatic
Thread Starter
Royal Purple Oil
I was talking to Comp Cam and they said they DO NOT recommend the use of Royal Purple on a Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft because it is a Synthetic oil...As that true or is it a sales pitch not to use it...The guy at the parts store said he uses it all the the time on his car and he has the same Cam I do..
02-13-2014, 10:29 AM
#2
My engine builder (a muti, multi time NHRA Champion)also said NO to synthetic engine oil for my 6.4 Gen 3 Hemi with hydraulic roller lifters. I have never tried synthetics, so I can't offer an opinion there.
02-13-2014, 12:50 PM
#3
Don't try breaking it in with synthetic. As far as never using it, I don't know. I've used it lots of times in my engine and haven't had a problem, maybe the issue is a lack of ZDDP?
02-13-2014, 01:08 PM
#4
Mopar Fanatic
Thread Starter
Well I guess we will find out..I used Royal Purple with Comp Cam Zinc to break it I. And its running good so far...I do have a leak on my rear main I think but we shall see.
Last edited by raycan2; 02-13-2014 at 06:32 PM.
02-13-2014, 05:15 PM
#5
So maybe we can debunk the synthetic break in myth. I'm interested to see how it goes. The only cam I've wiped took about 2-3K miles to let me know it was trash, how many miles a year does your car see?
02-13-2014, 06:21 PM
#6
Mopar Lover
Ok....Time for your Home work Lesson.......
slantsixdan
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slantsixdan
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Hold on a sec, let's not swallow this sales pitch from Lucas quite so enthusiastically. Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time trusting technical information from someone who doesn't know how to spell a simple, easy word like Zinc. There's no "k" in it. I lose even more confidence when the genius from Lucas doesn't know the difference between "ware" and "wear".
But this isn't English class, so let's focus on the science of what we're trying to do here. 5200ppm is many times greater Zn concentration than needed, and more is not better. It's been well documented that a 0.10% to 0.12% concentration of Zn and P is optimal for flat-tappet engines, for example in SAE papers 770087, 831760, and 2004-01-2986 (these papers were published in 1977, 1983, and 2004, respectively, so the recommendation is not reduced for compliance with the latest super ultra low emission vehicle requirements).But, that data's old, and there's newer information that the ZDDP scare is even more exaggerated than the unleaded-gasoline scare or the Freon-12 scare: there is plenty of life after all three.
If you have determined to use a ZDDP additive anyhow, a whole bottle would be massive, huge overkill and a needless waste of money, not to mention the likelihood of screwing up the chemistry engineered into the motor oil —*take a look around; every time a petrochemist is asked about additives, they practically beg and plead with the public not to add anything because it usually doesn't help and it quite often makes things worse.
The Lucas rep states that a whole bottle of their magical moose milk should be used at each oil change to bring a 5-quart system to 5200ppm Zn. The moose milk comes in a 16oz bottle, which means if the Lucas rep is telling the truth*, the additive itself contains 39,600ppm Zn, or about 4%.
Here's the math: we're running ½qt (16oz) of Lucas moose milk plus 5qt of engine oil. That's 16 ounces of moose milk and 144 ounces of engine oil, or 11.1% moose milk and 88.9% engine oil. The engine oil by itself contains about 800ppm Zn, so we subtract 800 from 5200 and get 4400 coming from the 16 ounces of moose milk. 4400 divided by 11.1% gives us 39,600ppm (or 0.6336 oz) of Zn in a 16oz bottle of moose milk.
What we want to wind up with is between 1000ppm and 1200ppm of Zn in our crankcase, so let's say we want 1100ppm, or 0.11%. There's already 0.08% Zn in a quart of the latest SM engine oil (actually, most of them run a little on the high side, as it seems, but we'll use the 800 figure). In 5 quarts of SM engine oil, therefore, you've got 0.128 ounce of Zn. Therefore, you're a little under 0.05 ounce short of what you want.
You're holding in your hand a bottle of moose milk containing 0.6336 oz of Zn. That means you are holding a bottle containing just over twelve and a half doses of Zn. You would need to add just 1.25 oz of moose milk to a 5-quart fill of SM engine oil to have the optimal 1100ppm of Zn. That's 2.5 Tablespoons, folks, not a whole bottle!
* - Whether the Lucas rep is telling the truth is an open question. The company is known to make false claims which, if followed, will damage your engine. Link goes to a demonstration on bobistheoilguy.com , widely regarded as the go-to place for knowledge about engine oil and relatied matters.
Take it for what it is... Do some Home Work... Its not all that hard....
Good food for thought and a great subject for all of us....
slantsixdan
=..=
slantsixdan
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 3,950
Thanks: 1
Thanked 132 Times in 129 Posts
slantsixdan's Flag is: Canada
Hold on a sec, let's not swallow this sales pitch from Lucas quite so enthusiastically. Maybe it's just me, but I have a hard time trusting technical information from someone who doesn't know how to spell a simple, easy word like Zinc. There's no "k" in it. I lose even more confidence when the genius from Lucas doesn't know the difference between "ware" and "wear".
But this isn't English class, so let's focus on the science of what we're trying to do here. 5200ppm is many times greater Zn concentration than needed, and more is not better. It's been well documented that a 0.10% to 0.12% concentration of Zn and P is optimal for flat-tappet engines, for example in SAE papers 770087, 831760, and 2004-01-2986 (these papers were published in 1977, 1983, and 2004, respectively, so the recommendation is not reduced for compliance with the latest super ultra low emission vehicle requirements).But, that data's old, and there's newer information that the ZDDP scare is even more exaggerated than the unleaded-gasoline scare or the Freon-12 scare: there is plenty of life after all three.
If you have determined to use a ZDDP additive anyhow, a whole bottle would be massive, huge overkill and a needless waste of money, not to mention the likelihood of screwing up the chemistry engineered into the motor oil —*take a look around; every time a petrochemist is asked about additives, they practically beg and plead with the public not to add anything because it usually doesn't help and it quite often makes things worse.
The Lucas rep states that a whole bottle of their magical moose milk should be used at each oil change to bring a 5-quart system to 5200ppm Zn. The moose milk comes in a 16oz bottle, which means if the Lucas rep is telling the truth*, the additive itself contains 39,600ppm Zn, or about 4%.
Here's the math: we're running ½qt (16oz) of Lucas moose milk plus 5qt of engine oil. That's 16 ounces of moose milk and 144 ounces of engine oil, or 11.1% moose milk and 88.9% engine oil. The engine oil by itself contains about 800ppm Zn, so we subtract 800 from 5200 and get 4400 coming from the 16 ounces of moose milk. 4400 divided by 11.1% gives us 39,600ppm (or 0.6336 oz) of Zn in a 16oz bottle of moose milk.
What we want to wind up with is between 1000ppm and 1200ppm of Zn in our crankcase, so let's say we want 1100ppm, or 0.11%. There's already 0.08% Zn in a quart of the latest SM engine oil (actually, most of them run a little on the high side, as it seems, but we'll use the 800 figure). In 5 quarts of SM engine oil, therefore, you've got 0.128 ounce of Zn. Therefore, you're a little under 0.05 ounce short of what you want.
You're holding in your hand a bottle of moose milk containing 0.6336 oz of Zn. That means you are holding a bottle containing just over twelve and a half doses of Zn. You would need to add just 1.25 oz of moose milk to a 5-quart fill of SM engine oil to have the optimal 1100ppm of Zn. That's 2.5 Tablespoons, folks, not a whole bottle!
* - Whether the Lucas rep is telling the truth is an open question. The company is known to make false claims which, if followed, will damage your engine. Link goes to a demonstration on bobistheoilguy.com , widely regarded as the go-to place for knowledge about engine oil and relatied matters.
Take it for what it is... Do some Home Work... Its not all that hard....
Good food for thought and a great subject for all of us....
Last edited by RacerHog; 02-13-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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raycan2 (02-13-2014)
02-13-2014, 06:46 PM
#7
But does the moose milk come from a male moose? Thats how I'm reading this. I personally use diesel motor oil (7 qts) and one bottle of Lucas, but it's not called moose milk. The Lucas product helps my engine prime quickly when it's been sitting for a while, my external oiling setup has drain back issues.
02-13-2014, 06:54 PM
#8
Mopar Lover
4 Speed your kill me. All I can say is, I'm an old STP guy.... Still use it and trust it to this day.
But that's just me Brother..
I ran 15W40 With the DC rating for as long as I could get it.... Every Motor taken apart was Clean and Golden in side....
I like the story's of "Snake oils" it's good reading and a knowledge of others experience of what works and what doesn't for each individual.... Some live and some die.
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raycan2 (02-13-2014)
02-13-2014, 07:03 PM
#9
Mopar Lover
I even use to use this stuff at one time.....
Was a Sponsor for one of my race cars... I was using it before Holton was...lol
http://www.oilextreme.com/
After that I went to plan oil Amsoil....
Was a Sponsor for one of my race cars... I was using it before Holton was...lol
http://www.oilextreme.com/
After that I went to plan oil Amsoil....
02-13-2014, 07:06 PM
#10
Mopar Fanatic
Thread Starter
I guess if STP is good enough for you its good enough for my car..I am just learning about all this stuff....I have had to do thing over again and has costed me a little more $ but it has been fun and Building this car with my 17 year old who owns the car has been well worth it.
We almost bought a car that was built all up already and ready to go to the strip..... but we would have not learned a thing..
Thanks to all you guys for the advice and help.......
We almost bought a car that was built all up already and ready to go to the strip..... but we would have not learned a thing..
Thanks to all you guys for the advice and help.......
02-13-2014, 07:17 PM
#11
Mopar Lover
Will see how your turns out... I'm sure it will be just fine.... Just use good oil. And keep an eye on it when you change it to see if there is anything in the oil that should not be there..... Like Metal shavings....
Other than that... Your good to go...
Hope you like the cam and the way it runs....
Like Moe say's.... You have to watch out for me.....
Other than that... Your good to go...
Hope you like the cam and the way it runs....
Like Moe say's.... You have to watch out for me.....
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angelman67 (05-29-2014)
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