Hello,
A good friend of mine was discussing oils and stuff at our hot rod gathering last night. I've heard him mention zinc in oil a few times before but have never heard anyone else specifically say anything about it, then another guy spoke up about it a little.

After doing some searches on the net and within these forums, I'm as confused as confused can be!

The friend simply recommends adding a can of STP oil treatment to get the zinc the older engines need. From what I've seen, it seems adding zinc is really only needed during break in of new cam/engine.

I have a 1966 Plymouth Satellite with original 361ci (5.9L) engine with 115,000 miles that runs absolutely perfectly. Had a new cam put in a few years ago and was broke in as my mechanic recommended. Do oil changes every 3000 miles.

Is a zinc additive really necessary or recommended?

Thank you

 

Good To see you back Cork.....
It is true that the Zinc level in the oil we use to buy is now lower. It was mostly done for emissions purposes. (Long Story Short).
Lots of the Cam MFG. are requiring to add back in the Zinc when breaking in new valvetrain parts. But after a break in most oem or stock motors are good to go without the extra Zinc. The Standard API oil with have the rite stuff to see the engine has what it needs. Now when you start putting heaver loads "higher pressure valve springs" that becomes a different story, At that point it becomes the mfg recommendation needing to be followed.
I would say in your case, You don't really have to buy the bottle of Zinc and add it. BUT, yep there is a but! You should be using a High Mileage Motor Oil of good quality after 65,000 miles on our old cars.
But in conclusion for your old girl, STP is a good protector, I use that in my old 225-6 just for the "tackifiers" For cold start up, because engine oil had a lot different additive different than what was in them back in the older days.
For my daily driver.... 1977 Dodge D-150 360... It get 5-30Wt Castrol with a Wix filter. And lives just fine... And I change my oil every 4,000 miles...
Hope this helps you for a direction....
Keep us posted on what your findings are and what way you went.

 

Thanks for the info, Bob!

I've been in and out of here just reading. Easier to learn things that way instead of getting myself confused asking to many questions!!

As a matter of fact, I DID just have oil changed and used high mileage oil, and plan on it from now on, as car has 115k on her, but still runs super sweet.

Thank you again

 

Your welcome...... Happy Cruising....

 

#3---Engine Oils, Flat Tappet Cams & Zinc

9/6/2014
Dave Hughes



Recently one of our more astute customers noticed a tech article on a website of an oil company from the UK that addressed the lack of Zinc in the oil issue we have all been fighting.
The article is very interesting. It kind of reminds me of politicians, credit card companies and global warming wackos (the lowest form of humanity). Explanations & twisting bits of non-relative or made up information to help promote their agenda. We are concerned with our customers and our products. We present information that we think best serves you. This is our agenda! We are not concerned with the rest of the automotive market such as "Half-Breds" (Hybrids) or restored Model T Fords. Our parts, specifically cams & lifters in these example, run spring pressures from 320# to over 450# open (if you use our new "COOLFACE SOLID OIL THRU LIFTER" (P/N HUG 5012EDM). These numbers are very common in the performance and racing industry regardless of brand. However, for everyday citizens, these are unheard of if not unrealistic numbers and in their minds not something that they need to be concerned with. Except, of course, if they want to tell you that you shouldn't be doing it either. Remember, "THEY" know what is best for you.
We, and I include everyone in the performance and racing industry, struggled for many years to find a cure for the flat tappet cam and lifter problem. We are dealing with high performance engines with higher spring pressures and more aggressive cam profiles. Bottom line is this, every cam company has some type of tech article or disclaimer about oils and flat tappet cams. This is not a made up or perceived problem. It is real. Cams were, in the past, failing on a more than normal basis. In hind site we can see that the time line of the cam problems is parallel to the reduction in Zinc Phosphate package in the oils.

One of the first places this problem was noticed was in the Nascar Racing Series around 1998. SAE and Richard Childress racing even released papers documenting the problem with the oils and the reduced wear packages. Some of these Nascar teams are actually having their own oils formulated. Since we have provided the information on our website about oils and began to offer the Joe Gibbs Driven Racing Oils, as well as the popular Extreme Pressure Additive (P/N HUG 3690) with soluble moly, the problem has completely disappeared. This is not coincidental.
What about diesel oils? Shell Rotella, one of the leading diesel oils in the world, has a note on their website concerning the reduction of Zinc in their oils. They refer to the Zinc as a "part of the anti-wear system within the oil". Now they are removing Zinc to meet new emmission standards. This new formulation of diesel oils has created a situation where we cannot recommend diesel oils for flat tappet cams.

As a point of interest, the struggles of the industry to correct the problem has brought new products to the market that will allow us to make even more horsepower. Specifically, the "COOLFACE SOLID OIL THRU LIFTER" (P/N HUG 5012EDM) that have an oil hole on the bottom of the lifter that provide a positive supply of cool, full pressured oil to the cam & lifter interface area. With these lifters, tests have shown them to accept 500# or more open spring pressure and still extend cam life even longer than standard type lifters with lower spring pressures. WOW, these means even more aggressive ramps and lifts.......hang on! Like Tina Turner says, "It's gonna get rough!"

If this were not, or had not, been an issue we wouldn't be talking about it and oil companies wouldn't write articles about it. The problem is (was) real. The oils are the problem. The Joe Gibbs Driven Racing Oils and the Extreme Pressure Additive (P/N HUG 3690) have eliminated the problem. Game over.




Home | Phone: 309-745-9558 | Email: information@hughesengines.com

 

Thanks for pointing that out Iowan...Good read rite there for you Hi-Perf. Folks.....

 

Zinc is for ALL flat tappet cams.

 

One could also factor in the load characteristics of different oil brands. All the zinc in the world will not help with an oil that has a low (under 90,000 psi) load capacity!

$0.02

 

Base and TBN is very important in oils forrrrrr sure...

 

This is a good thread, being that iam taking the car out of the shop I need to change the oil on it and I have been told I DO NOT need the Zink, but I am going to use it.

 

Knew this would happen! As confused I was before starting this topic.

So after reading all that, that Iowan posted, do I need to add zinc to my stock 361ci (5.9L) engine that has been well broken in now, after swapping cams 3 years ago?

 

All flat tappet cams should have zinc in the oil, the cost of the additive is minimal compared to the cost of replacing cam and lifters. I use Amsoil or Joe Gibbs synthetic oil with zinc so I don't have to add it. I run my old junk hard so a $70 oil change ounce a year is doable.

 

As it is, when I had my oil changed with the High Mileage oil, that already has zinc in it!

No additives needed!

 

not true

 

How can you say not true when I didn't even mention what oil I used?

 

Plus 1

 

Ok, so you posted plus 1 to moparted, but that was after I said how could that person know when I never said what oil I used.

Your plus 1 means nothing without some kind of explanation.

 

Research oils with Zink for flat tappet cams and see if yours is on the list.

 

Guys -

Up to a few years ago, there were a couple of oils with some zinc left in them. These days, you're pretty much stuck adding something. Also, the metallurgy of cams 30+ years ago was a little different than is is today, and not for the better.

Yeah, it's cheap insurance.

Archer

 

This may put some thoughts to rest.

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/rislo...lder-vehicles/

And Rislone has been around a day or two..

Hummmmmmmm

 

I had already done that before I had my oil changed and after I started this topic. The oil I used has this rating for zinc and phosphorous:

Zinc = 1221 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 955 ppm (anti-wear)

From what I've read, the minimum requirement for zinc is 1200ppm and don't remember or sure if I ever saw a minimum for phosphorous.

As Bob says in his first reply, and from what I've read from searches, his statement seems to be fairly accurate also:

"Lots of the Cam MFG. are requiring to add back in the Zinc when breaking in new valvetrain parts. But after a break in most oem or stock motors are good to go without the extra Zinc"

 

then the oil is NOT sm or sn spec oil

 

LOL... Zinc is mostly gone in that oil ... SD or SE might be what you would look at.... But you wont find that anymore....

 

It says SN/GF-5 on their site.

 

then it cant have it