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I'm sure they can tweak it if necessary.....I wouldn't get shook up....its ok......they can fix it..��
I just thought of this, you might have a fuel pressure drop. Maybe you could use a better fuel pump.
Driving on the dyno is not the same as on the road. On the road the pulls are longer overcoming vehicle mass not just parasitic power loss.
Thanks for the info, Iowan.
Shop owner said it's not a significant enough amount of timing to rule out fuel quality. He recommended that I stick to high quality gas stations (not mom and pop shacks) and keep logging.
Upon further research, it seems like less than 4 degrees of occasional Short Term Knock Retard is pretty safe. Not something to let happen, but not immediately deadly. Since I'm not getting ping and the ST KR is relatively low, I'm going to try out a couple of different gas stations. If quality fuel doesn't clear it, I'll follow Iowan's line of thinking about fuel and get my fuel filters, pump, lines inspected.
I might just need faster spray at high rpm. For my wallet's sake, I'm hoping that isn't the case. The tempation to buy boost on top of fuel rails would be strong! Haha!
Not sure what fuel you used for the Dyno Day. But you learned some things.... Not to sure what the fuel ratio said? Most of that data looks pretty so so. i feel.
I think if you do it again. I would trim up the fuel a little richer and use a 91-93 Octane fuel... But run a couple tanks threw it before Dyno Day...
If you know? What was the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temp)?
RacerHog,
Air/Fuel is tuned at 12 across the board (except for right at redline where it bumps up for a very brief moment, I assume to max out the flow and prevent lean condition while shifting). The owner stated that all of the Hemis he has tuned (and that's a lot over the past several years) seem to like to run on the rich side.
I have BP 93 octane in the tank and that's what it was tuned on. Had been running that fuel for a long time, but I bought this particular tank at a smaller, less impressive station.
I don't have an Exhaust Gas Temp reading for that particular run I posted, but I'll try to record that this weekend.
I'll also take the shop's recommendation to run Sunoco 93 octane for a while to see if that clears it up.
I really appreciate the wisdom you guys are passing on!
If I get a solution to the Knock issue, I will be sure to report on it! Though, I'm sure it won't be a shock to anyone who has encountered and solved it before.
I'm curious how this is being shifted, if your shifting or the trans is controlling the shifts? Also you referred to the red line what would that be how hard are you turning it?
Iowan,
This particular pull was straight line, no manual input to the transmission and controlled, deliberate application of the pedal.
I'm letting the automatic do the shifting for me. Occasionally, I will downshift myself, but never up (because my trans is designed to mostly ignore upshifts anyway).
Redline is the stock 6000 or so. That's a programed hard limit I requested to stop me from breaking things.
For how aggressively I'm driving: I get straightened out, squeeze the pedal to the floor (usually let the automatic downshift on its own) and lift off throttle smooth and slow. I don't cut hard turns at full throttle and I don't shift weight from side to side under power.
From the driver's seat, the engine feels strong and steady. I don't hear ping or other bad attitude. Power comes on in a smooth surge that builds evenly in time with rpm. Top end of rpm feels as healthy as mid and low. Shifts feel smooth both with the pedal to the floor and normal commute conditions.
I really need to review more logs I've made, but I do think I can clear the ST KR with better quality gas.
Is the 6000rpm shifts stock?
You're dyno pull is to 5750 or so without gain from 5500rpm. I don't see the need to turn it to turn it to 6000 rpm at all. In fact I'd only keep it down to 5500 on the street.
One more thing does this have headers on it?
Iowan,
You're probably right about redline. I was estimating from memory (been on a mini vacation and didn't take the time to verify exact numbers).
You also might have a lot of good sense about detuning redline down a bit. Not that I know much about any dyno results... but the current tune seems to hold power pretty well at the high rpm, so there is some desire to keep the tune where it is. However, what I actually gain in passing power on the highway is probably nothing noticable. Hard for me to know, things move a little too quickly and the dial is too far from the road for me to eyeball it while driving on public roads.
To make things slightly more frustrating, I think I may have accidentally corrupted my log files from my road trip. I bumped the OBDII cable and the logger shut off mid-drive on the way home... Oops! I'll find out tomorrow if I managed to record anything substantial, but I doubt it...
Still, I barely used my gas pedal at all, even when passing. Just about every car I had to over take and every drunk driver I had to un-hitch from my blindspot happened at part throttle. That was nice to feel again! Haven't had that kind of torque in YEARS!
Down side is, if I have relevant data at all... it will be very small samples.
Anyway, thanks for reading! And special thanks to RacerHog and Iowan for the input and advice!
Sorry I don't have any new videos or pictures, my family wasn't interested in helping me show off The Cookie Monster 🤬
More to come!
I brought the newer shop's invoice and dyno chart to the old shop and let the owner know that I want to discuss the work line-by-line with him next month.
Old shop has an amazing ability to make excuses for everything. But they did say they want to do a side-by-side comparison of each ECU tune at a third party AWD dyno.
Which raises a bunch of questions and ideas...
1. Probably not safe to put the old tune on the car and run it. I had that tune replaced for good reason, to include bad behavior (surging, struggling) at higher RPM.
2. Not sure what the risk of bricking my ECU is... I'll need a signed agreement to repair any damage done at no cost to me.
3. I don't know that the newer shop would be game for having their work tested.
4. I suspect that both tunes are less than perfect. The goal is to get it to perfection at no additional cost, or better, with a refund from old work.
But this is a pretty big opportunity for the science of it and learning on my part.
Probably too hopeful. I doubt either of these guys has the humility to be subjected to something that will expose their flaws like this. They both seem too proud and too committed to deflecting responsibility for their mistakes.
So, I'm not sure I'll agree to the test anyway. I have a month or more to think about it. We'll see.
Right now, I think I might just stick with what I've got and accept that when you let other people work on your car, they'll never do as good a job as you would have.
Who knows, maybe I'll take a shot at learning how to tune myself.
Lots of smart guys out in the industry. The deal is you have to build on one guys knowledge and then build on anothers. Just an FYI, the problem is not always in the tuner. Lots of verables dictate performance and the levels of how hard things drive, stop, and steer, In the case of this guy did this and this guy did that, i think your choice is just "ok how do we make it better" ! Then you move on to the next level. However I not sure your going to get good results from just trying to play 2 shops against each other. (But then, I don't know what contract you developed with these shops ? If any)
Keep Chipping at it.. Your making progress, And I am sure you all are learning allot of new stuff...
I'm not a fan of playing games or playing one against the other like Bob said, its obvious the second shop got better results and found things the first place missed. Like I've said before the next guy will aways critique the last guys work every time.
The second shop did fix the drivability issues that you were having so I don't see the point.
Sound advice, guys. Thanks!
I did think on this a bit last night and was leaning towards not pitting two shops against each other.
I agree that it wouldn't help me any at this point.
Seems best to drive what I have until either:
1. It breaks
2. I decide to mod further
Definitely happy with how The Cookie Monster is driving these days. This road trip for work today made up my mind to keep things as they are.
I drove with the AC off (can't do that with lady Wreklus on board) and really paid attention to how it dove, handled and sounded.
Ended up getting an average of 18mpg, which is pretty good considering the thirsty tune. The sound of the go-happy fuel injectors, smooth valve train and the strong (but not insane) exhaust was really satisfying.
Being in Savannah, I had a lot of other tuned up cars sounding off with revs and a lot of turned heads when I cruised by groups. It's very different from the kinds of people we have in South Carolina. It was nice to get some positive attention for a change.
Anyway, got a good view from the parking lot. I don't think The Cookie Monster will mind being parked by the old oak trees tonight.
Unfortunately, I'll have to leave her (and lady Wreklus) for a while so that I can go do Air Force things for a short time. I will be glad when I get back to my "Two one-and-only's"! Haha!
Glad all ran good Glad the Misses went with you... Too bad your not closer to Adel GA. You could take in some good fast racing over at SGMP (South Georgia Motorsports Park)...
You having to pull duty over at Hunters Airfield? Thanks for you service if that's whats happening?
RacerHog,
Thank you for your support!
I do drill at Hunter Airfield. We have a small section fenced off for us Air Guard types. Before anyone gets any misconceptions, I am definitely not a commando. I know a few and they are great guys, but I've never done the dirty work. Instead, I just keep the technology running.
Anyway,
I am hoping to get more race fuel exhaust in my diet this year, so I appreciate the tips on good places to spectate.
I'm getting ready for an auto show next month.
I plan to join the "Exhaust Competition" (if that even is a real thing that people do... haha!)
I don't expect that there will be any prizes, or even very many spectators. But, I used to do this kind of thing back when I was in highschool and I drove an '87 Chrysler New Yorker. I didn't think much of the car until I found lots of people gawking over it, simply because it was different.
I'd like to see how The Cookie Monster is received.
It's been a long time since I did a full detail of the engine bay, interior, trim, tires and wheels. I forgot how exhausting it can be to revive a daily driver and get all of the grime off it!
I was going to hit the engine bay after I finished polishing the chrome wheels. But I just don't think I have the endurance for it today! We'll see, there is some daylight left yet.
Since my knees and back are already sore, I'll pause to post some pics of the process for cleaning chrome wheels!
Before cleaning. There is a combination of tiny rust dots, road grime, brake dust, and some over spray from tire shine. Not the worst way to start, but definitely not show worthy!
Slathered up! I use Turtle Chrome Polish and Rust Remover. I like Turtle because their chemicals are as tough as you can get. But, they are also potentially disastrous if you spill or over spray on the wrong surface. I used a super cheap microfiber buff pad and applied by hand. I never use power tools when detailing. Too easy to over do it.
Let it dry for several minutes into a haze. This is a good opportunity to pace yourself and crack open a "soda", or just give your knees a break. ((I need to get a low stool to sit on for stuff like this!))
Wipe the chrome down with a paper towel. I really like the blue shop towels you can get for cheap at Walmart for stuff like this. Don't be afraid to give it a LOT of elbow grease. Chrome is a very hard metal, so it won't scratch within the limits of human ability. If you use a buff tool for this, pick a thick, soft pad and remember that more time is better than more force.
I'm definitely not a professional, but I have done a lot of detailing on my own cars. If you want to share tips, or ask questions, feel free to jump in on this thread. But, if you're going to want to have a conversation over several posts, please make a separate thread for your own vehicle and ask there.
Looks Good !!!>>>> This was my old go too stuff.... Old Skool....
I'll have to give this stuff a try.
I ended up using a ton of elbow grease on the front passenger side and still had to re-do my work on it. Pain in the !!
Glad I got it done though. All that's left is to tire shine, wipe down dust in the engine bay, and sparkle up the trim accents. Easy day tomorrow!
For those who might wonder why I would do all this work now, knowing the show is a month away...
Daily drives accumulate gunk that can be really hard to work out. Even though I'll have to do all of this work over again the week before, and also the day of... It's worth the effort in my experience.
A car in the same class that is 100% clean and sparkling will always place higher than a more rare and powerful car that has dust in the door hinges and road grime under the wheel arches.
A show with serious judges means every inch of the car is inspected before its score is calculated.
Then again, this show that I'm prepping for might be judged by the crowd, in which case much of my work may go unappreciated.
Either way, I have some scratches and some worn leather. I don't expect to place in a showing, which is why I intend to gun for the exhaust competition instead.
The detail work is more for my own enjoyment / pain. Haha!
05-23-2019, 10:02 AM
