HELP!!!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
HELP!!!!
Hello everyone, Iam having a BIG problem gettin my 74 duster up and running. Iam more a body guy, then motor, but maybe someone can figure this out. The car has a 318 w/ 340 heads - weiland tunnel ram with two edelbrock 4bbls. It hasent really run right since I bought it. It will start with starting fluid and run for 15 seconds and then shut off. Alot of backfireing thru the front carb and exhaust. There is a big hole in the hood, and I belive it sat outside for 8 months. I removed the carbs, pulled the tops off and "poured" all the water out of the bowls, and wiped everything clean, but this didnt help. I had someone look at it who played with the front two air/fuel screws, and now it seems worse. Iam hearing its either my carbs or timeing. The ignition is ACCELL/ electronic. How do I even set the timing with this?? Is it possible to do when the car doesnt run? Or does anyone know where the screws should be in the front of the carbs? I know this is a tedious and long process, but Iam going f!@# ing nuts!!! I know its getting spark "screwdriver in sparkplug wire test!" and I know the fuel is getting up to the carbs! I dont know what CFM they are "this setup compatability???" they say 1404 0794 at bottom left. Where do I go from here??? any advice is VERY appreciated! thank you
Mopar Lover
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,204
Likes: 4
From: Brooklyn, N.Y.
you are probably getting too much fuel first of all
that'll cause ignition in the tailpipe
are for the backfiring, your timing is probably 180 off
the car needs to be running to check your timing
that'll cause ignition in the tailpipe
are for the backfiring, your timing is probably 180 off
the car needs to be running to check your timing
Admin
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,173
Likes: 200
From: Goffstown, NH
The carbs are 500 CFM first off. Second, Tunnel Ram intakes are only designed to be run on the strip, not the street. Since you have water in the carbs, who knows where else you have water. You wires could be 180 out, the carbs may need a rebuild or at least an extensive cleaning. Have you checked for compression in all the cylinders?
Mopar Fan
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Northern California, USA
WOW!!
That is a lot of gas for a 318.
You can check your INITIAL timing by removing the number 1 spark plug, remove the coil wire at the coil and then turn the engine over to get the #1 piston at the top of the "compression" stroke. The way most people identify that with out having the valve cover removed is to put your finger on the hole and when it pops your finger off, you’re at the top of the stroke. I usually get a new unsharpened pencil, put it in the head and turn the crank by hand to get the peak. Look at your harmonic balancer and verify you are at top dead center on your timing cover scale.
Once you are reading top dead center, remove your distributor cap to make sure the rotor is at the number 1 cylinder. The engine can run 180 degrees out but, like crap. (I learned that the hard way.)
If your distributor cap is cracked, it could create a cross fire also.
(I leaned that the hardway too and only with an oscilloscope to find it.)
Your engine should be able to idle and run with the initial timing set.
Now for what everyone else thinks might be the problem and that is your fuel delivery.
Do you have a stock fuel pump or an electric?
A stock pump might not be letting enough gas to... what size is those carbs?
If you have an electric pump, does it have an inline pressure gauge?
My single Edelbrock 750 sccm needs at least 6 ½ PSI to run at wide open throttle.
If you are getting enough fuel pressure, other things that may cause a back fire is a vacuum leak. Make sure you don't have something disconnected from your intake manifold that goes no where.
For your carbs. Screw both idle mixture screws in. Don't crank it down but just enough to where they start to get snug. Back them out the same amount of turns. They say 5 is good but on my small block 360 magnum with 1 carb. They are backed out 3 1/2 turns each.
It's hard to figure out stuff when you’re not actually at the motor but, I hope this gave you some ideas.
Let us know what you found and
p.s. Don't let GMdude try to convince you to get a GM ignition system
Mopar_71
That is a lot of gas for a 318.
You can check your INITIAL timing by removing the number 1 spark plug, remove the coil wire at the coil and then turn the engine over to get the #1 piston at the top of the "compression" stroke. The way most people identify that with out having the valve cover removed is to put your finger on the hole and when it pops your finger off, you’re at the top of the stroke. I usually get a new unsharpened pencil, put it in the head and turn the crank by hand to get the peak. Look at your harmonic balancer and verify you are at top dead center on your timing cover scale.
Once you are reading top dead center, remove your distributor cap to make sure the rotor is at the number 1 cylinder. The engine can run 180 degrees out but, like crap. (I learned that the hard way.)
If your distributor cap is cracked, it could create a cross fire also.
(I leaned that the hardway too and only with an oscilloscope to find it.)
Your engine should be able to idle and run with the initial timing set.
Now for what everyone else thinks might be the problem and that is your fuel delivery.
Do you have a stock fuel pump or an electric?
A stock pump might not be letting enough gas to... what size is those carbs?
If you have an electric pump, does it have an inline pressure gauge?
My single Edelbrock 750 sccm needs at least 6 ½ PSI to run at wide open throttle.
If you are getting enough fuel pressure, other things that may cause a back fire is a vacuum leak. Make sure you don't have something disconnected from your intake manifold that goes no where.
For your carbs. Screw both idle mixture screws in. Don't crank it down but just enough to where they start to get snug. Back them out the same amount of turns. They say 5 is good but on my small block 360 magnum with 1 carb. They are backed out 3 1/2 turns each.
It's hard to figure out stuff when you’re not actually at the motor but, I hope this gave you some ideas.
Let us know what you found and
p.s. Don't let GMdude try to convince you to get a GM ignition system
Mopar_71
Mopar Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
Also might have bad gas if it sat for 8 months. Have you filled the tank yet? Might want to try and drain it if you haven't added more to it yet. Also add some fuel additive to help remove water and varnish etc...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Yea, I think the tunnelram needs to go! But right now, no, no electric- its manual fuel pump. Iam going to try the INITIAL timing, thanks for the info 71-I have a bullshit wedding this weekend, prob. do it monday night. I had a 318dart before with (1) edelbrock 4barell and would INSTANTLY start in my garage in middle of winter, Iam thinking, get rid of that crazy rig on the top and buy a new manifold and carb. But yeah, the previous owner had problems and said the car was outside for 8 months,with a big hole in the hood! I changed the oil before I did anything! would a compression check tell me if theres water in the cylinders??? What would cause the rotor to be out 180?? Thank you very much for the info!!!
Mopar Lover
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
From: East Coast Canada
Yea, I think the tunnelram needs to go! But right now, no, no electric- its manual fuel pump. Iam going to try the INITIAL timing, thanks for the info 71-I have a bullshit wedding this weekend, prob. do it monday night. I had a 318dart before with (1) edelbrock 4barell and would INSTANTLY start in my garage in middle of winter, Iam thinking, get rid of that crazy rig on the top and buy a new manifold and carb. But yeah, the previous owner had problems and said the car was outside for 8 months,with a big hole in the hood! I changed the oil before I did anything! would a compression check tell me if theres water in the cylinders??? What would cause the rotor to be out 180?? Thank you very much for the info!!!
Mopar Lover
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,892
Likes: 4
From: Michigan: The First Line of Defense From The Canadians!
Pardon me if I'm overlooking something here, but I was reading Mopar Muscle this month, and there was a tech answer on page 90 of the sept issue regarding the use of 340/360 heads on a 318. It stated that the 340/360 heads had a larger combustion chamber that would drop the compression ratio to 7.5:1 on a 318. Once again, I'm no expert, but it sounds like the motor was poorly thought out when built by the previous owner. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I always heard this combo was ok "heads and block"???? or do you mean with the tunnelram, it was poorly planed out??? there was aircleaners on it for the time it sat with a cover over them- the intake with 3 holes "red butterfly covers" and the oil wasnt watered down when I drained it, I guess Iam ok in that area! But this welder at my work told me today the same thing you guys are saying, thats way to much fuel going in and thats really a set-up for the track
Mopar Fan
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Northern California, USA
Hey Moparbri69,
I think you are right about no water getting in your engine.
You would see it in the oil that you had changed.
You mentioned you took the tops off the carbs in your original post.
That should be good enough for the concern of water in the carbs and engine.
I agree with 72DRNR about the gas.
If it's old. It's no good. If it's like the color of a Sam Adams, you will need to drain your tank and flush it with new gas. But, if it's like the color of a Molsen Golden, you should be ok. Belive it or not, the smell of it can make the difference too.
If you have ever smelled varnish, it's about the same smell. (bad)
If it was me and I knew the gas was in there for 8 months, I'd drain it and flush it with new gas and change the fuel filter(s). I have 2.
A compression check will tell you a lot about your piston rings and cylinder head valves.
I'm not sure about what numbers you should get but I think anything above 110 psi is OKAY.
67 GTX
Polaradude
78D200
scotts74birds
theomahamoparguy
what do you think about compression specs for a 318?
You all seem to be really cool and helpful. Lets get this duster back on the road
If your cam and crank are all lined up properly. No bent push rods and lifters are in good shape, it will should give you consistant numbers. + or - 20 psi
If you do a compression check, let us know the numbers. If you have a low number I'm pretty sure I can guide you on some tips to determine if it's you rings or valves.
Not sure about the cylinder head compatability like scotts74birds said but, here is a link that might interest everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9WvrxGQNL4
GIVES ME GOOSE BUMPS!!!!
As far as the intake manifold change... that is the best thing you can do.
I think you can use one of your 2 carbs for your new intake.
I recommend an Edelbrock air gap performer intake. but, you can choose what you want....
Keep us informed moparbri69
I think you are right about no water getting in your engine.
You would see it in the oil that you had changed.
You mentioned you took the tops off the carbs in your original post.
That should be good enough for the concern of water in the carbs and engine.
I agree with 72DRNR about the gas.
If it's old. It's no good. If it's like the color of a Sam Adams, you will need to drain your tank and flush it with new gas. But, if it's like the color of a Molsen Golden, you should be ok. Belive it or not, the smell of it can make the difference too.
If you have ever smelled varnish, it's about the same smell. (bad)
If it was me and I knew the gas was in there for 8 months, I'd drain it and flush it with new gas and change the fuel filter(s). I have 2.
A compression check will tell you a lot about your piston rings and cylinder head valves.
I'm not sure about what numbers you should get but I think anything above 110 psi is OKAY.
67 GTX
Polaradude
78D200
scotts74birds
theomahamoparguy
what do you think about compression specs for a 318?
You all seem to be really cool and helpful. Lets get this duster back on the road
If your cam and crank are all lined up properly. No bent push rods and lifters are in good shape, it will should give you consistant numbers. + or - 20 psi
If you do a compression check, let us know the numbers. If you have a low number I'm pretty sure I can guide you on some tips to determine if it's you rings or valves.
Not sure about the cylinder head compatability like scotts74birds said but, here is a link that might interest everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9WvrxGQNL4
GIVES ME GOOSE BUMPS!!!!
As far as the intake manifold change... that is the best thing you can do.
I think you can use one of your 2 carbs for your new intake.
I recommend an Edelbrock air gap performer intake. but, you can choose what you want....
Keep us informed moparbri69
Mopar Fan
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Northern California, USA
Just how do you determine if gas is burning fast or slow on a paper towel?
A paper towel will actually make the gasoline SEEM to burn slower and make a lot of smoke from the carbon composition of the paper. If you do actually light the paper towel with gasoline, to extinguish it, use a class B extinguisher.
Hmmm. We are mixing the gasoline with air through a carburetor not a paper towelrator
Gasoline is extremely flammable, even though it is only a 3 on the NFPA and depending on where the gas originated depends on how oxygenated (ethanol or MTBE) it will be.
Over time, the additives evaporate and what is left is the gummy oil state that it started from.
Regardless of all this factual crap I wrote, lighting the gas on a secondary source of ignition (paper, cotton cloth, fiberglass, buddy’s *** crack, wood..) will not determine the chemistry of the gasoline or burn rate.
Stick to the color and age of it. 8 months is probably old gas.
Change it.
LOL! This is fun.....
You got to let us know the outcome
A paper towel will actually make the gasoline SEEM to burn slower and make a lot of smoke from the carbon composition of the paper. If you do actually light the paper towel with gasoline, to extinguish it, use a class B extinguisher.
Hmmm. We are mixing the gasoline with air through a carburetor not a paper towelrator
Gasoline is extremely flammable, even though it is only a 3 on the NFPA and depending on where the gas originated depends on how oxygenated (ethanol or MTBE) it will be.
Over time, the additives evaporate and what is left is the gummy oil state that it started from.
Regardless of all this factual crap I wrote, lighting the gas on a secondary source of ignition (paper, cotton cloth, fiberglass, buddy’s *** crack, wood..) will not determine the chemistry of the gasoline or burn rate.
Stick to the color and age of it. 8 months is probably old gas.
Change it.
LOL! This is fun.....
You got to let us know the outcome
