New to mopar - 440 build questions
10-14-2012, 10:13 AM
#1
New Member
Thread Starter
New to mopar - 440 build questions
This is going to be a total newb question, but I just purchased a 72 charger with a freshly rebuilt 440 - and I'd like to get a little advice on selection of power train options. I've not researched much, hoping this will save time.
1. What is a reliable way to get to 700-800 horsepower
2. I'd like to add a blower, as its just something I've wanted.
3. I'm sure some substantial improvements to the power train will be needed, anyone care to suggest a track proven setup?
4. Is the stock block reliable to those numbers? I'd like to drive as is for the next 3 months while I'm working on the interior,and obviously the internals will need to be upgraded. If the stock block cannot support this, any other brands preferable?
I realize I could search around to find the answers, but I don't have the time to do so. Any input is greatly appreciated.
1. What is a reliable way to get to 700-800 horsepower
2. I'd like to add a blower, as its just something I've wanted.
3. I'm sure some substantial improvements to the power train will be needed, anyone care to suggest a track proven setup?
4. Is the stock block reliable to those numbers? I'd like to drive as is for the next 3 months while I'm working on the interior,and obviously the internals will need to be upgraded. If the stock block cannot support this, any other brands preferable?
I realize I could search around to find the answers, but I don't have the time to do so. Any input is greatly appreciated.
10-14-2012, 12:35 PM
#2
Mopar Lover
Your asking alot from OEM stuff. Block will take it the insides won't. Look at a Dana 60 rear or equal strength unit, driveshaft and transmission to take that much power. A heavy car like this will need chassis work to hook but first to stop body twist, and don't forget about stopping.
No quick answer here, I'd say more information gathering is needed as you are looking at a very serious project that needs to be well thought out and planned.
I like the idea, big old B Body with the front wheels up is too cool.
No quick answer here, I'd say more information gathering is needed as you are looking at a very serious project that needs to be well thought out and planned.
I like the idea, big old B Body with the front wheels up is too cool.
10-14-2012, 05:24 PM
#3
Mopar Lover
sounds like u got deep pockets or high debt score
no pun
but if your pumpin that much hp go for top end too dont let these exotic 100,000 + cars eat our lunch pop their bag
check out the "TCI " 6 speed trany go for that top end challenge 240 280 300 mpr then ,move to Montana and have fun
no pun
but if your pumpin that much hp go for top end too dont let these exotic 100,000 + cars eat our lunch pop their bag
check out the "TCI " 6 speed trany go for that top end challenge 240 280 300 mpr then ,move to Montana and have fun
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Concept440 (10-15-2012)
10-15-2012, 10:53 AM
#4
New Member
Thread Starter
I'm aware of the task at hand, I've been in the industry for 10 years, and yes I do well for myself. That's why I bought this car.
I have good resources for chassis mods and there is already a nicely done cage in the car. I was really hoping for some links to other builds or general input on what track proven powertrain setups people have gone with, as well as what they like about them and why.
I have good resources for chassis mods and there is already a nicely done cage in the car. I was really hoping for some links to other builds or general input on what track proven powertrain setups people have gone with, as well as what they like about them and why.
10-15-2012, 02:27 PM
#6
Admin
First off WELCOME!
Are you looking for 700-800 HP at the crank or at the tires? Is this going to be a street/strip car? Strip only? Weekend warrior?
I'd be looking at a bore/stroker kit along with that blower along with a rather large cooling system. Like Coronet 500 said, you'll need a Dana 60 rear or something of equal or better strength. As for the transmission, that all depends if you want an automatic or a manual.
Are you looking for 700-800 HP at the crank or at the tires? Is this going to be a street/strip car? Strip only? Weekend warrior?
I'd be looking at a bore/stroker kit along with that blower along with a rather large cooling system. Like Coronet 500 said, you'll need a Dana 60 rear or something of equal or better strength. As for the transmission, that all depends if you want an automatic or a manual.
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Concept440 (10-16-2012)
10-15-2012, 08:24 PM
#7
Super Moderator
I have seen a blown 426 hemi in a nice sublime green GTX that was 750 at the wheels and it had an 8 3/4" rear and had been down the race track. People under estimate the power that they can take. I would do a 520 stroker at 8:1 compression and put a nice big ole blower on top and don't try to hide it under the hood.
10-16-2012, 06:37 AM
#8
New Member
Thread Starter
First off WELCOME!
Are you looking for 700-800 HP at the crank or at the tires? Is this going to be a street/strip car? Strip only? Weekend warrior?
I'd be looking at a bore/stroker kit along with that blower along with a rather large cooling system. Like Coronet 500 said, you'll need a Dana 60 rear or something of equal or better strength. As for the transmission, that all depends if you want an automatic or a manual.
Are you looking for 700-800 HP at the crank or at the tires? Is this going to be a street/strip car? Strip only? Weekend warrior?
I'd be looking at a bore/stroker kit along with that blower along with a rather large cooling system. Like Coronet 500 said, you'll need a Dana 60 rear or something of equal or better strength. As for the transmission, that all depends if you want an automatic or a manual.
I've even considered a fuel injection kit and no2 but I like the carbs for the original-ish characteristics. The car isn't original or #s matching so I'm not afraid of cutting it up.
The Dana 60 would be nice, as it seems to be easy to find. Which version is preferable? The 4:10 dodge ram 2500? I'm a little skeptical about limited slip taking that much power, but would prefer it over spool.
10-16-2012, 07:08 AM
#9
Admin
There are a bunch of Mopar Dana 60 rear axles out there (search Dana 60 Mopar on ebay - they are quiet some $$$ too). You do not want to go with a rear axle out of a truck becuase it will have an 8 on 6.5 lug pattern and will need to be shortened to fit your car. With that being said, if you can shorten an axle on your own, then you can also convert it to a semi-floating axle of go with a set of billet hubs with a 5 on 5.5 lug pattern. This will allow you to keep the full floating feature of the axle and you can upgrade to rediculiously stong axle shafts (way stonger than 4340 moly shafts).
10-16-2012, 07:29 AM
#10
New Member
Thread Starter
I have seen a blown 426 hemi in a nice sublime green GTX that was 750 at the wheels and it had an 8 3/4" rear and had been down the race track. People under estimate the power that they can take. I would do a 520 stroker at 8:1 compression and put a nice big ole blower on top and don't try to hide it under the hood.
10-16-2012, 07:39 AM
#11
New Member
Thread Starter
There are a bunch of Mopar Dana 60 rear axles out there (search Dana 60 Mopar on ebay - they are quiet some $$$ too). You do not want to go with a rear axle out of a truck becuase it will have an 8 on 6.5 lug pattern and will need to be shortened to fit your car. With that being said, if you can shorten an axle on your own, then you can also convert it to a semi-floating axle of go with a set of billet hubs with a 5 on 5.5 lug pattern. This will allow you to keep the full floating feature of the axle and you can upgrade to rediculiously stong axle shafts (way stonger than 4340 moly shafts).
10-16-2012, 02:46 PM
#12
If you want 800 hp don't try and do it yourself talk to an engine builder. BDS Blowers ?
Everything needs to work together.
Steel crank is a must, forged blower pistons, O ringed block, custom heads & cam, stud girdle, motor plate, etc and DEEP pockets
Personally I would start with an aftermarket block to do it right you are talking a $20K motor not a $500 rebuild
http://www.indyheads.com/images/price2012.9.pdf
Everything needs to work together.
Steel crank is a must, forged blower pistons, O ringed block, custom heads & cam, stud girdle, motor plate, etc and DEEP pockets
Personally I would start with an aftermarket block to do it right you are talking a $20K motor not a $500 rebuild
http://www.indyheads.com/images/price2012.9.pdf
Last edited by TVLynn; 10-16-2012 at 02:56 PM.
10-16-2012, 03:54 PM
#13
New Member
Thread Starter
If you want 800 hp don't try and do it yourself talk to an engine builder. BDS Blowers ?
Everything needs to work together.
Steel crank is a must, forged blower pistons, O ringed block, custom heads & cam, stud girdle, motor plate, etc and DEEP pockets
Personally I would start with an aftermarket block to do it right you are talking a $20K motor not a $500 rebuild
http://www.indyheads.com/images/price2012.9.pdf
Everything needs to work together.
Steel crank is a must, forged blower pistons, O ringed block, custom heads & cam, stud girdle, motor plate, etc and DEEP pockets
Personally I would start with an aftermarket block to do it right you are talking a $20K motor not a $500 rebuild
http://www.indyheads.com/images/price2012.9.pdf
10-16-2012, 06:48 PM
#16
having built a few blower 440s , I would really recommend a World Mega block for the build , they will take 2000 hp . A mild build put a 71 GTX at 10.0 / 138 mph around 3500 lbs & a similar build put a 73 Cuda [heavier car, close to 4000 lbs ] at 10.3 /136 on drag radials , how fast do you want to go ?
Can it be done with a stock block .... yup but lifter bosses can crack & mains can walk , you need a stud girdle , cross bolted mains are a Plus , a Roller cam & good heads are needed . I would recommend BDS for a blower , their blowers are one of the best unless you want to run the screw type blowers , they eat a lot less HP
Can it be done with a stock block .... yup but lifter bosses can crack & mains can walk , you need a stud girdle , cross bolted mains are a Plus , a Roller cam & good heads are needed . I would recommend BDS for a blower , their blowers are one of the best unless you want to run the screw type blowers , they eat a lot less HP
Last edited by Chryco Psycho; 10-18-2012 at 06:40 AM.
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Concept440 (10-17-2012)
10-17-2012, 04:10 AM
#17
New Member
Thread Starter
having built a few blower 440s , I would really recommend a World Mega block for the build , they will take 2000 hp . A mild build put a 71 GTX at 10.0 / 138 mph & a similar build put a 73 Cuda [heavier car] at 10.3 /136 on drag radials , how fast do you want to go ?
Can it be done with a stock block .... yup but lifter bosses can crack & mains can walk , you need a stud girdle , cross bolted mains are a Plus , a Roller cam & good heads are needed . I would recommend BDS for a blower , their blowers are one of the best unless you want to run the screw type blowers , they eat a lot less HP
Can it be done with a stock block .... yup but lifter bosses can crack & mains can walk , you need a stud girdle , cross bolted mains are a Plus , a Roller cam & good heads are needed . I would recommend BDS for a blower , their blowers are one of the best unless you want to run the screw type blowers , they eat a lot less HP
It does appear that I'm a bit short on funds so I'm going to have to put this off until after Christmas. I may start with the cutting in December, to allow a month for the chassis/cage mods and interior work.
10-17-2012, 04:15 AM
#18
New Member
Thread Starter
I should have listed: 10.00 is great, was thinking that setup would put me (I'm not claiming to be the best driver in the world but have gone down the track quite a few times) around 11.0
If I step up to the better block I may shoot for something that can put 1000 whp down as my fear was the limits of stock. I'm mapping out and making a photo journal of the entire build, and will be posting it when completed.
If I step up to the better block I may shoot for something that can put 1000 whp down as my fear was the limits of stock. I'm mapping out and making a photo journal of the entire build, and will be posting it when completed.
10-18-2012, 06:49 AM
#21
The TKO is out , it will break & doesn't shift well , Lenco is the best option , a T56 Magnum may hold up if you want a stick .
Something like the Indy 440 -1 head or the B1 heads , you need huge exhaust side flow , the blower will push the air in but you need to get the air out , big headers too [2"] as scavenging will not be as much of an issue ,also use 3" exhaust & an X pipe .
The combos we built were probably in the 750 gross Hp range , stock block mild heads just a good combo of parts with a carefully designed cam , the GTX had stock block & heads ported though , still displacing 440 CI cost 4000 for the short block & 3500 for the blower , it ran 10.4 @ 4000 ft altitude , we switched to Mopar stage 6 heads & went 10.0 /138 the next year using a BDS 8/71 blower & no other changes , going to 1000 gross hp / 750 at the tires is a lot more power especially if you car is lighter . I am not sure what you want to use for a body / chassis . going up to a 512 stroker makes sense .
For the diff I would only recommend the Dana & do not go crazy with gearing , 3.54 or 4.10 will be lots , you will make a huge amount of torque so trying to make the engine work less & rev faster will nto increase your ET , for example my 440 ran 12.2 in a Duster using 3.23 gears , & ran 11.8 using 4.30 gears , the difference was in 60 ft , it dropped to 1.4 & launched so hard I twisted both axles in the 8 3/4 diff & broke 2 teeth off the pinion gear & had to build a dana after only 1 launch !!
Cam design will be critical , you need a lot of lift but short duration with minimal overlap , using a 1128 - 114* CL cam so you are not pushing raw fuel out the exhaust , supercharged cams have to be designed to trap the pressure .
Something like the Indy 440 -1 head or the B1 heads , you need huge exhaust side flow , the blower will push the air in but you need to get the air out , big headers too [2"] as scavenging will not be as much of an issue ,also use 3" exhaust & an X pipe .
The combos we built were probably in the 750 gross Hp range , stock block mild heads just a good combo of parts with a carefully designed cam , the GTX had stock block & heads ported though , still displacing 440 CI cost 4000 for the short block & 3500 for the blower , it ran 10.4 @ 4000 ft altitude , we switched to Mopar stage 6 heads & went 10.0 /138 the next year using a BDS 8/71 blower & no other changes , going to 1000 gross hp / 750 at the tires is a lot more power especially if you car is lighter . I am not sure what you want to use for a body / chassis . going up to a 512 stroker makes sense .
For the diff I would only recommend the Dana & do not go crazy with gearing , 3.54 or 4.10 will be lots , you will make a huge amount of torque so trying to make the engine work less & rev faster will nto increase your ET , for example my 440 ran 12.2 in a Duster using 3.23 gears , & ran 11.8 using 4.30 gears , the difference was in 60 ft , it dropped to 1.4 & launched so hard I twisted both axles in the 8 3/4 diff & broke 2 teeth off the pinion gear & had to build a dana after only 1 launch !!
Cam design will be critical , you need a lot of lift but short duration with minimal overlap , using a 1128 - 114* CL cam so you are not pushing raw fuel out the exhaust , supercharged cams have to be designed to trap the pressure .
Last edited by Chryco Psycho; 10-18-2012 at 07:01 AM.
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Concept440 (10-18-2012)
10-18-2012, 01:54 PM
#23
Mopar Lover
turbo charge it
just turbo charge it and just turn up the boost
i just saw a dyno of a twin turbo hemi at 7 psi was making over 700 hp around 2500 rpm and at 14 psi it was making 1500 hp
so get too it
too simple
cha ching
then make that 4 wheel monster faster than any car on the road
i would move to Montana so i could cruis at 200 and hall azz too 300
ludicrous speed GO!!!
just turbo charge it and just turn up the boost
i just saw a dyno of a twin turbo hemi at 7 psi was making over 700 hp around 2500 rpm and at 14 psi it was making 1500 hp
so get too it
too simple
cha ching
then make that 4 wheel monster faster than any car on the road
i would move to Montana so i could cruis at 200 and hall azz too 300
ludicrous speed GO!!!
10-18-2012, 04:03 PM
#26
Mopar Fanatic
10-18-2012, 09:39 PM
#28
Mopar Lover
Are you going to go full chassis on this car? Is it going to be an all steel body? Full interior? This sounds like a great project. I'd love to see some pix of it 
j
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