dodgem880

Hello all

I'm doing research for rebuilding the 360 engine in my blue 1977 Dodge W200 (ex M880) this summer. Some of you may remember it from older posts.
Back in November of 18 it started having trouble with the top end and got progressively worse, so I parked it. As previously stated, the last owner of this truck didn't believe in oil changes or preventative maintenance of any kind.
So, the motor is sludged up pretty bad.

I plan on having the cylinder heads rebuilt by a professional and having the block hot tanked if possible which from what I read means new cam bearing which is a job for the machinist.

Since I haven't done a tear down yet I'm planning for the worst in my research.

Just because of how dirty the engine is I plan on replacing the cam and lifters regardless.

Which brings me to the subject of this thread. What camshaft should I choose for a stock 360 for a truck application?

I don't really understand most camshaft specs, but my book says valve lift should be .410". So, I get on summit racing to look at camshaft kits for my engine. Using the filter called "Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio" I pick the cam with the lowest matching numbers which is 0.420 int./0.420 exh.

Edelbrock Performer-Plus Cam and Lifter Kits 2177
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2177
Basic Operating RPM Range: Idle-5,500
Edelbrock says the same valve springs , rockers , shafts and push rods can be used.

Would the above camshaft kit be a good choice for me? It has .010 more valve lift than stock, what effect will that have?

I also plan on switching to a four barrel intake and going FiTech, but I haven't decide if that will be during the rebuild or at a later time due to added costs. The current fuel delivery is the stock 2 barrel Holley 2245 carburetor.

I rarely haul or tow anything but, I'd like to still have the option. Better fuel mileage would be nice.. no matter how small.

Any advice would be most appreciated.
Thank You

RacerHog

Stay with the 270 Avr. Duration and under, if your going to leave it pretty much in stock form. I say add the EFI from the Get-Go, Add it at the time of the build, Don't do it later. Thats the only spot you might gain a little fuel mileage. I going to say your looking at around 10MPG, and thats about it.
Just my 2 cents

Iowan

I agree with Mr Bob stock cam or maybe an RV cam.

dodgem880

Thanks for the replies

Alright so 270 duration or less. Stock cam.

I looked at OEM spec cam kits on rockauto for my application/engine and I think I found a better option that $54 cheaper and comes with a double roller timing chain.
Its branded by Sealed Power which I had never heard of but a quick Google search says their associated Federal-Mogul.

Here is the link:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...603&cc=1100754

Better yet I could get a replacement stock cam with a engine rebuild it.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...100754&jsn=494

The ones on rockauto are by enginetech. Again I've never heard of them but, a quick google search and I don't see anyone saying anything bad. I can't buy one until I know what my sizes are.
In the meantime any other suggestions?

dodgem880

I have another question.

I have a friend that thinks I should run this cam.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6900
Advertised Duration 278/288, Lift .421/.444, Chrysler, Small Block

From what I understand it's basically a 340 camshaft.

I was wondering what affect it would have?

RacerHog

I would suggest to not go too much larger than that.

mocotom

Your stock compression dictates you stay with a small duration cam if you want to maintain low rpm power and drive-ability.

dodgem880

Thanks for the replies.

I may very well end up with a stock replacement cam as I find camshaft specs confusing but, I'd still like to look into the possibility of something a little better than stock (whatever that means) since I'm replacing the camshaft regardless.

The SUM-K6900 camshaft is listed for towing applications. I found another cam on rockauto by Melling (Part # MTD1) with the same specs also listed for "Heavy Duty / Towing". On napaonline there is the CS644 by Sealed Power simply listed as "MPG Performer" with the same specs as well.

I guess I'm confused what a towing cam is as they all have an advertised duration that exceeds 270. I though it's a camshaft that is slightly better than stock to help make little more power. 10hp or less.

Then there is the confusion of adv. duration itself. It seems to me this number could be anything. You could have two different cams with the same .050 duration numbers and the adv. duration could be different because of how the manufacturers did their measurements.

For example:
Looking at stock replacement camshafts most of them all seem to have 050 duration 203 and .410 valve lift. One of them actually give a adv. duration spec (MELLING SPD25): 278
So are truck engines already given "towing cams". I mean wouldn't that make sense?

Now I'm going to try to select a camshaft with the following rules:

• Adv. duration will not exceed 270
• dual pattern (I heard these are more efficient)

And I get this:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-k20-222-3/
Adv. Duration 262/270, Lift .462/.470

Comparing this cams 050 duration and valve lift to the previously mentioned summit cam leads me to believe it is more aggressive even though the adv. duration numbers are lower.

k6900:
204/214
cca-k20-222-3:
218/224

So, hopefully you can see why I'm confused.

mocotom

Cam duration is actually measured in crankshaft rotation degrees, meaning the number of degrees the crankshaft rotates from the time the valve begins to open(lifted off seat) until the valve is completely closed(on seat). The reason you get same advertised duration numbers on two different cams yet the .050 numbers are not the same is the design of the cams lobe. When you measure duration at .050 that number is given in crankshaft rotation degrees from the time the valve reaches .050 inch of lift (open) until .050 inches before it closes. What causes this difference in numbers is the angle at which the cam company shapes the lobe, in other words two cams that have the same 270 degree advertised duration yet one .050 is 218 degrees and the other is 210 degrees means the first cam has a steeper angle on the cam lobe. The cam with the larger at .050 duration number yet the same advertised will normally make more power without sacrificing low RPM torque because it is opening the valve faster allowing more fuel to enter the combustion chamber in an allotted amount of crank rotation. Hope this didn't cause more confusion!

Iowan

I find it hard to compare shelf cams between companies, I would pick a cam company and go through there offerings. One more thing when comparing "stock " cams mopar had a strange way of Measuring duration it was not at .050 lift but an odd number.

RacerHog

OK.... I'll Set you in what I think is the rite direction.... >>> http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=628&sb=2
And run your 4 barrel intake and FiTech or Holley 750 CFM Vacuum Secondary's...

Just my 2 cents...

dodgem880

@mocotom Thanks you. Your explanation makes sense.

@Iowan Thanks for the advice. So, I wonder if I could contact a company tell what I have, what I'm trying to do and they could recommend a product?

@RacerHog

Thanks for the suggestion but, I do have some concerns.

Looking at the installation notes. It looks like some additional machine work is needed for the valve seals and the recommended lifters require the valve train (I assume the rockers) be adjustable.. which mine is not.

I also noticed in the description Stall 2200+

Does changing the camshaft on an automatic transmission vehicle also require changing the torque converter?
Sorry if that is a stupid question but, I hadn't considered it before.

If the answer is yes, then picking a camshaft just got a whole lot easier... stock. I don't want to get that deep into it.

Iowan

I recommend Comp Cams you can give them a call tell them what you have and what your after they will set you up.

http://www.compcams.com

RacerHog

In that case you have answered your own question.... Replace it with a stock cam for now.... Save your penny's and dime's and build a more performance engine at a later date. But as you have learned. Performance work hand in hand with something else as you gain in performance.
My point being, if you not willing to go the or do the extras. Then your kind of very limited to you gains in the performance area without digging deeper into the engine and drivetrain.
Stab in a Stock cam and lifter set and call it a day.
Just my 2 cents...

Keep us posted on the out come and what you decide to do and how it works out?

Iowan

An RV cam will give you more torque and better fuel efficiency without giving up anything. It just a better performing cam than a stock cam. They normally work in the same parameters of each other.

Iowan

This is what I'm thinking for a cam, this one is a summit cam.
Here is the cheapest deal
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6900/make/

Lunati Cams
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/l.../make/chrysler

Comp Cams with timing set, this would be my choice, larger rpm range. provably the best with a 4v carb and hesders.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c.../make/chrysler


NOTE: all these cams say new springs kits needed, but a 40 year old motor should have new springs anyhow.

Coronet 500

When comparing use the .050" numbers. My choices with stock converter, an increase in power and keeping fuel mileage reasonable, would be:

Lunati 10200260LK: 204,216/.427",.454"/112 lsa.

Comp XE256H: 212,218/.447",.455"/110 lsa.

Most LA heads I have checked will handle up to .450" lift with no additional machining, I would change old springs for new compatible ones.

dodgem880

It looks like I have a few options to choose from.

Thank you all for your advice.

I'll let you know what I've decided.