63valiant

New member here - hope someone can help.
I have 63 Valiant that's been sitting in storage for 10 years. At least 9 of those were in a garage, out of the elements.
I drove it to the garage 10 years ago, so I know it can run. I tried to start it over the weekend and it wouldn't start.
Before starting, I put in fresh gas and changed the oil. There is no battery, so it was jumped from a running car.
The starter did crank the engine, but rather slowly. I verified I was getting spark from the coil and I was using starter fluid.
I tried many times, but I never got any combustion.

I know it's hard to diagnose the issue with the little info here, but any ideas what could be going on? Could the slowness of the cranking be an issue? If so, what could cause that? I pulled the starter and fired it up and it seemed to run perfectly fine. I am able to crank the engine backwards by hand with the fan blades, but I can't go forward because the fan belt slips.

If that's not it, what else? I verified the distributor rotor is moving and there was no noticeable corrosion inside. In hindsight, I know I got spark form the coil, but i may have forgotten to see if I was getting spark from the distributor. But, could the distributor have deteriorated that much where none of the plugs fired?

Any help (or links) would be helpful.

Thanks,
Ted

bulldog

It's not likely that it will start without its own battery. The cables wont carry enough current to operate the starter and give a strong enough spark to start the car.

bremereric

I agree put a battery in it and carefully pour a little fuel down the carb. Then try to start it again.

63valiant

After reading your responses and googling a bit, it occurred to me that these cables are more correctly called BOOSTER cables, as they just help boost your battery, they don't replace it - duh.

Fortunately I have 2 other working cars, so I can borrow a battery from one of them and use the other to jump the battery later if I drain it too much.

Thanks for the heads-up guys.

I was torn between fixing and selling this car. If I can start the engine without putting too much $ money in it, I think I'm going to restore it -- at least to where it can pass inspection. If it runs, I can then also drive to my mechanic down the street and get his opinion if it's worth fixing up - or if there's too much rust

If I can't get it running, then I'm probably going to sell it or junk it.

62Furious

Running or not post here first if you deside to sell

63valiant

Will do. FYI - I'm just outside of Philly, PA. I probably won't get to play with it again until the weekend. I'll post back here with my progress.

If it does start and I do try to fix it up, I'm sure I'll be coming back here with questions.

If it doesn't, I'm sure there's at least a few decent parts on it that someone would want.

440roadrunner

You may have two or three problems, one related to the boosters

FIRST, unless you have huge very high quality boosters, trying to crank a car this way is a waste of time

SECOND The fact that the boosters are not providing high enough voltage will cause a weaker spark

THIRD, did you change the ignition points? They may be deteriorated after sitting that long, and you may have a weak spark.

ALSO do NOT try and start the car by jumpering the start relay. That is because of the way the coil ballast resistor bypass for starting works, which is IN the ignition switch.

First thing I'd do in trying to start a stored car is check the spark quality. To do that, use a grounded probe (12V test lamp will work) remove the coil wire from the coil, and hold the probe near the top of the coil high voltage connector. Crank the engine USING THE KEY, or by using a temporary clip lead hooked from the coil + terminal to the battery. This will "simulate" bypassing the resistor, and allow a one - man operation.

If you don't get a nice fat blue spark with this test, replace the points and condenser (capacitor) in the distributor.

63valiant

It started! (yay)

Thanks for the advice everyone.

With a battery and starter fluid, right off the bat it caught and ran for a second or two -- so it sounded like it was getting sufficient spark.

I tried this a few times with the same result - just running for a few seconds then dying. I figured it wasn't getting any gas.

After checking the fuel lines and hoses between the fuel filters, I found a completely blocked filter and a hole in a hose before the fuel pump. After fixing these (and getting a mouth full of gas), I tried again and still got nothing.

Finally, it hit me - the fuel pump itself was dry. I syphoned gas up to where the hose hits the carb (getting another mouth full of gas) to ensure that the fuel pump was full. I tried again and voila - it started and ran!

I let it idle for a good 45 minutes. It was understandably rough at first, but it smoothed out after a while.

At the moment, it looks like I'll be fixing her up. But, I'll soon be taking it to my mechanic to see what he thinks. I know it needs a LOT of work (cracked radiator, oil and tranny leaks, brake pads/drums, tires - just to name a few), but once it's up on a lift, I'd like to know if there's anything else that will make it not legal or unsafe, like frame rot.

Thanks again.

440roadrunner

Very good. These cars are the "modern day" (at least in there time) Model T Ford. That is, a simple, basic car that can be easily maintained. And many of the engine / drivetrain parts can be adapted clear up into the 80's so keeping them going isn't that difficult.

66Barracuda

Hi - If you find you need an engine rebuild ... try VAC motorsports in Philly. Although they specialize in BMW race engines, they are a full machine shop (even fab & patent their own parts) & can handle anything. Their engine built American Iron for 30+ years before doing BMWs. They did my 318 & did a spectacular job ... acid bath, paint, total re-build, heads included. Worth the $$!

63valiant

Thanks 66B, I'll keep that in mind, but something like that will be down the road. My car runs, albeit a bit rough, but it runs. I'm going to put in new plugs and points, which should smooths things out. They are all due - probably 15-20 years since they were last changed.

I'm not one who thrives on speed or performance, so just running and reliable is my goal.

That being said, any one have recommendations on plugs? I've read a few debates on it and not sure what to do. It's a 225 /6. Again, my preference would be a $1 reliable plug over a $5 high performance plug.

Also, I took my car to my mechanic and he said it was structurally sound, but the trunk is basically rotted away. The tire well is so bad you can put holes in it with your bare finger and the sides next to the wheel wells need to be replaced. Might be easier to replace the whole trunk. Any recommendations on a place in the philly area that can do this type of metal work? Or get replacement metal? I've read this is a fairly common issue with these cars, so it seems the chances of rummaging through a junk yard will only result in just another rusted trunk.

66Barracuda

I'm parts shopping myself, but try this guy, he might be willing to crop the back end of his parts car ... worth a shot.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/2938026255.html

If you still have issues after a tune-up, I'd consider checking timing & perhaps a carb rebuild. I just use an American brand of spark plug & they do fine.

VAC doesn't only do performance stuff. When I bought my '66 in '06, the engine was handed to me in pieces. While VAC is certianly capable of building for speed, I wanted mine built to be appropriate as a daily driver ... and they did a great job. They also have a body shop attached. The owner's name is Tony ... if you talk to him for an estimate or a referral, just let him know I referred you (I don't get a kick back, but he is an old friend).

~Brenda

MrOldart2U

These are the recommended plugs for the slant six over on the slant six board NGK #ZFR5N stock no.3459, gapped @ .035 and the washer removed...