Cam and Lifters
04-08-2016, 07:05 AM
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Cam and Lifters
I bought a 426 street wedge engine a few years ago and just now working on it. Cam and lifters were already out of the block and in a separate box when I picked everything up. So I dont know which lifters go into which slot over the cam shaft. I've heard if you are re-using the parts then the lifters have to be placed over the same cam lobes or it will create problems. Is that a valid statement? None of the lifters appear to have unusual wear and none are concave.
Im not re-building for top performance, just want to complete a build that runs and operates before going after top end performance build. And my budget is restricting the quality of performance at the moment.
Im not re-building for top performance, just want to complete a build that runs and operates before going after top end performance build. And my budget is restricting the quality of performance at the moment.
04-08-2016, 07:23 AM
#2
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New cam and lifters are needed, I have seen new lifters put on an old cam but the odds of a flat cam are high.
04-08-2016, 09:12 AM
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What info do I need to look for if I buy new cam and lifters? There are a LOT of options out there. I dont need anything fancy. Like I said, I'm not building for top performance, just a low end budget build.
04-08-2016, 09:26 AM
#4
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Does it have adjustable rockers for a mecanical cam?
04-08-2016, 09:39 AM
#5
Mopar Lover
Drop[ -
Do you know anything about the cam? Is it the same age as the engine, a newer/after market cam, anything?
For a mild street build, any hydraulic cam that's close to factory specs will work. Keep the duration under 280 and the lift under 480.
Comp Cams and Edlebrock are good choices.
You WILL need oil additives to keep the cam alive with today's oils.
Do you know anything about the condition of the rest of the engine? Bearings, springs, etc???
Archer
Do you know anything about the cam? Is it the same age as the engine, a newer/after market cam, anything?
For a mild street build, any hydraulic cam that's close to factory specs will work. Keep the duration under 280 and the lift under 480.
Comp Cams and Edlebrock are good choices.
You WILL need oil additives to keep the cam alive with today's oils.
Do you know anything about the condition of the rest of the engine? Bearings, springs, etc???
Archer
04-08-2016, 09:55 AM
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Drop[ -
Do you know anything about the cam? Is it the same age as the engine, a newer/after market cam, anything?
For a mild street build, any hydraulic cam that's close to factory specs will work. Keep the duration under 280 and the lift under 480.
Comp Cams and Edlebrock are good choices.
You WILL need oil additives to keep the cam alive with today's oils.
Do you know anything about the condition of the rest of the engine? Bearings, springs, etc???
Archer
Do you know anything about the cam? Is it the same age as the engine, a newer/after market cam, anything?
For a mild street build, any hydraulic cam that's close to factory specs will work. Keep the duration under 280 and the lift under 480.
Comp Cams and Edlebrock are good choices.
You WILL need oil additives to keep the cam alive with today's oils.
Do you know anything about the condition of the rest of the engine? Bearings, springs, etc???
Archer
I was reading about how new oil needs a zinc additive to allow continuous non-damaging function with older OHV engines.
I took apart the valve springs the other day and Im in the process of cleaning the valves, springs, pistons....The bearings all look good. No build up or noticeable damage or wear/tear.
Im in the process of cleaning the engine to run a micrometer through the cylinders and cleaning the pistons to mic as well. Im sure will need a ridge reamer because 2 of the pistons are broken between the oil rings. So Im also looking for replacement pistons to match what i have before I have to buy a new set.
04-08-2016, 11:38 AM
#8
Mopar Lover
Drop -
Two cracked pistons doesn't sound good. Unless you know what cracked them (and even if you do), you might be looking at an over-boring and all new pistons.
Now, this goes against all "best practices" approaches, but you could take care of the short block (honing and new pistons and maybe bearings, even if they look good) and just use the cam and lifters you have to save money. If/when it does wear out, you can replace it at a later date. Yes, I would mic it first to get an idea of what it is.
For high-perf, you want everything as dead-nuts right as possible, but doesn;t sound like that's what you're after. There are a lot of cars out there running with less than perfect set-ups. What you do is your call, and your budget.
IIRC stock rockers on the 426 wedge were the same type used on the 440s, stamped and with a 1.5 ratio.
If you were looking for a high-perf rig, then disregard everything I said.
(btw - you didn't mention what car this was going into and what you were going to do with it. There's a world of difference between an occasional driver and a street rod with occasional track time.)
Archer
Two cracked pistons doesn't sound good. Unless you know what cracked them (and even if you do), you might be looking at an over-boring and all new pistons.
Now, this goes against all "best practices" approaches, but you could take care of the short block (honing and new pistons and maybe bearings, even if they look good) and just use the cam and lifters you have to save money. If/when it does wear out, you can replace it at a later date. Yes, I would mic it first to get an idea of what it is.
For high-perf, you want everything as dead-nuts right as possible, but doesn;t sound like that's what you're after. There are a lot of cars out there running with less than perfect set-ups. What you do is your call, and your budget.
IIRC stock rockers on the 426 wedge were the same type used on the 440s, stamped and with a 1.5 ratio.
If you were looking for a high-perf rig, then disregard everything I said.
(btw - you didn't mention what car this was going into and what you were going to do with it. There's a world of difference between an occasional driver and a street rod with occasional track time.)
Archer
04-08-2016, 11:43 AM
#9
Mopar Lover
If the Cam is in great shape.... (I) would take the 50/50 chance on the new lifters and run it in.. But if it looks iffy.... Go with the new and make adjustments in the budget....
Now with that said.... I think (Myself) I would go and do the whole motor if I found broken ring lands in my motor.... Complete freshen up, with pistons...
Just my 2 cents
Now with that said.... I think (Myself) I would go and do the whole motor if I found broken ring lands in my motor.... Complete freshen up, with pistons...
Just my 2 cents
04-08-2016, 12:08 PM
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Drop -
Two cracked pistons doesn't sound good. Unless you know what cracked them (and even if you do), you might be looking at an over-boring and all new pistons.
Now, this goes against all "best practices" approaches, but you could take care of the short block (honing and new pistons and maybe bearings, even if they look good) and just use the cam and lifters you have to save money. If/when it does wear out, you can replace it at a later date. Yes, I would mic it first to get an idea of what it is.
For high-perf, you want everything as dead-nuts right as possible, but doesn;t sound like that's what you're after. There are a lot of cars out there running with less than perfect set-ups. What you do is your call, and your budget.
IIRC stock rockers on the 426 wedge were the same type used on the 440s, stamped and with a 1.5 ratio.
If you were looking for a high-perf rig, then disregard everything I said.
(btw - you didn't mention what car this was going into and what you were going to do with it. There's a world of difference between an occasional driver and a street rod with occasional track time.)
Archer
Two cracked pistons doesn't sound good. Unless you know what cracked them (and even if you do), you might be looking at an over-boring and all new pistons.
Now, this goes against all "best practices" approaches, but you could take care of the short block (honing and new pistons and maybe bearings, even if they look good) and just use the cam and lifters you have to save money. If/when it does wear out, you can replace it at a later date. Yes, I would mic it first to get an idea of what it is.
For high-perf, you want everything as dead-nuts right as possible, but doesn;t sound like that's what you're after. There are a lot of cars out there running with less than perfect set-ups. What you do is your call, and your budget.
IIRC stock rockers on the 426 wedge were the same type used on the 440s, stamped and with a 1.5 ratio.
If you were looking for a high-perf rig, then disregard everything I said.
(btw - you didn't mention what car this was going into and what you were going to do with it. There's a world of difference between an occasional driver and a street rod with occasional track time.)
Archer
I'll take a solid look at the cam later to see if the lobes still share the same shape, roundness/lift point, no pitting, etc.
I believe the pistons broke due to cylinder ridge. But if the ridge is bad enough then it would mean there is nasty taper going on which means I would need to bore anyways and get new pistons all together. I'll run a micrometer through the cylinders before I decide on new pistons.
I guess I would need new bearings if I buy new pistons, right? Or would they come as a set included?
So what do I need to know when buying new lifters?
I have a ragged 66 Coronet(2dr) that I wanted to restore but due to my financial situation I will mainly focus on getting it rolling and not worry about the aesthetics at the moment. Mad Max style rebuild, dirty and loud.
04-08-2016, 12:15 PM
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If the Cam is in great shape.... (I) would take the 50/50 chance on the new lifters and run it in.. But if it looks iffy.... Go with the new and make adjustments in the budget....
Now with that said.... I think (Myself) I would go and do the whole motor if I found broken ring lands in my motor.... Complete freshen up, with pistons...
Just my 2 cents
Now with that said.... I think (Myself) I would go and do the whole motor if I found broken ring lands in my motor.... Complete freshen up, with pistons...
Just my 2 cents
04-08-2016, 04:15 PM
#12
Mopar Lover
If what you have is rebuildable.... I would stick with it.... 426 Wedge and 906 heads.... Id stick with it.. Just do a rebuild on it... Nothing fancy until down the road.. I'm sure your local engine shop can handle that? rite....
When Money is not a problem... Buy and build a stroker 440 or something....
Just the basic rebuild if funding is an issue......... Simply because it can get pricey very fast with all the performance stuff... you can be over $10,000.00 at a bat of an eye....
Just food for thought.... Just get a price and lets see what it comes back as..
When Money is not a problem... Buy and build a stroker 440 or something....
Just the basic rebuild if funding is an issue......... Simply because it can get pricey very fast with all the performance stuff... you can be over $10,000.00 at a bat of an eye....
Just food for thought.... Just get a price and lets see what it comes back as..
04-08-2016, 05:03 PM
#13
Mopar Lover
Hard to make a decision until you here the numbers. A machine shop that says they will make it all better for xx dollars is not one I would use.
It will cost a bit for labour to clean and mag the block, check the crank and rods. I would expect a report of it needs "this" because it measured out at too much or too little. This part, lets say the crank, requires "this" work which will cost exactly xx dollars.
This type of work should be no different than an itemized estimate to fix your car. The guy I use is like this and it's just normal procedure for him, it should be for all engine machine shops.
It will cost a bit for labour to clean and mag the block, check the crank and rods. I would expect a report of it needs "this" because it measured out at too much or too little. This part, lets say the crank, requires "this" work which will cost exactly xx dollars.
This type of work should be no different than an itemized estimate to fix your car. The guy I use is like this and it's just normal procedure for him, it should be for all engine machine shops.
04-08-2016, 06:30 PM
#14
Mopar Lover
Hard to make a decision until you here the numbers. A machine shop that says they will make it all better for xx dollars is not one I would use.
It will cost a bit for labour to clean and mag the block, check the crank and rods. I would expect a report of it needs "this" because it measured out at too much or too little. This part, lets say the crank, requires "this" work which will cost exactly xx dollars.
This type of work should be no different than an itemized estimate to fix your car. The guy I use is like this and it's just normal procedure for him, it should be for all engine machine shops.
It will cost a bit for labour to clean and mag the block, check the crank and rods. I would expect a report of it needs "this" because it measured out at too much or too little. This part, lets say the crank, requires "this" work which will cost exactly xx dollars.
This type of work should be no different than an itemized estimate to fix your car. The guy I use is like this and it's just normal procedure for him, it should be for all engine machine shops.
04-08-2016, 06:50 PM
#15
Mopar Lover
I have run new lifters on used cams with success, although I would very much want to know what cam it is before using it.
I have no problem with a couple of new or used pistons that measure out within tolerances and weight as you would for a stock engine repair, camshaft specs matter in this decision too.
I wish I could remember what guys were using for 426 pistons as I've heard they're hard to find.
Getting this thing to run on the cheap I'm all for it.
I have no problem with a couple of new or used pistons that measure out within tolerances and weight as you would for a stock engine repair, camshaft specs matter in this decision too.
I wish I could remember what guys were using for 426 pistons as I've heard they're hard to find.
Getting this thing to run on the cheap I'm all for it.
04-08-2016, 07:58 PM
#16
Mopar Lover
Found this:
https://egge.com/product/list.php?ac...ry_id=&q=L2229
Looks like you can buy singles too.
https://egge.com/product/list.php?ac...ry_id=&q=L2229
Looks like you can buy singles too.
04-09-2016, 12:43 PM
#17
Super Moderator
The thing was taken apart for a reason.
04-10-2016, 11:14 AM
#18
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Cam
Call Hughes Engines (Hughesengines.com) tell them what you are doing and they will set you up right. Make sure you use the proper oil with your flat tappet cam on breaking and for the life of your cam. Off the shelf oil will not work out well with flat tappet cams cause it does not have the correct lube additives in it !
05-17-2016, 10:55 AM
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Update - The only markings i was able to find on the cam was 2 C 574. I measured the lobes and the Intake and Exhaust lobes were in tolerance except for the center 4 lobes which were out of tolerance. I dont have the numbers in front of me. And there was slight/minor pitting on some of the lobes.
So now Im worried about the cam being shot too.
Where should I look for a new set of cam and lifters and what lift/duration should I be looking for? Stock is what I am going for unless the price of performance parts is similar to stock pricing.
So now Im worried about the cam being shot too.
Where should I look for a new set of cam and lifters and what lift/duration should I be looking for? Stock is what I am going for unless the price of performance parts is similar to stock pricing.
05-17-2016, 03:10 PM
#21
Mopar Lover
Look what I found: http://omnitek.co/mellingcatalog/#ag...252520426Cid/3
Summit brand cam $70-80, Howard or Comp $130-150, that Mellings OEM $140.
I have bought Comp with success but now I will be buying only Howards as my supplier likes them and tells me there products are truly made in the USA.
Summit brand cam $70-80, Howard or Comp $130-150, that Mellings OEM $140.
I have bought Comp with success but now I will be buying only Howards as my supplier likes them and tells me there products are truly made in the USA.
05-18-2016, 03:23 PM
#23
Mopar Lover
I looked through some Howard and Comp stuff and this is the only one that says it can be used with stock springs.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
If you do use the original pistons with two new ones, make sure there is no ridge or it will smash the rings, breaking them or the lands.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
If you do use the original pistons with two new ones, make sure there is no ridge or it will smash the rings, breaking them or the lands.
05-19-2016, 11:51 AM
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Nice work! Really Appreciate it!
And I would need hydraulic lifters to match, correct?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lu...iew/make/dodge
And I would need hydraulic lifters to match, correct?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lu...iew/make/dodge
05-19-2016, 02:30 PM
#25
Mopar Lover
If you can piece together this short block I would think seriously about some money for springs and a larger cam. The fun factor goes way up and the only thing holding you back is the cost of springs, might find some good used ones too.
05-20-2016, 09:02 AM
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Yea, I still have a lot of other parts to gather. I still need to rebuild the baby carb(I think a bigger/better carb will be the first non-budget purchase down the road)need a balancer, flex plate/ flywheel/clutch, and I need to figure out what kind of transmission I have. Might start a new thread for the trans. Not even sure it is compatible with my engine. The bellhousing appears to fit the engine but the bolt pattern doesnt look like it matches the trans.
05-24-2016, 04:29 PM
#28
Mopar Lover
Best thing to do is go to two or three cam manufacturers site and fill out their recommendation form, easy and answers in a few days.
Inexpensive with used springs. http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
Or this way. http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
Inexpensive with used springs. http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
Or this way. http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...iew/make/dodge
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