64Imperial

I have a 440 its ready to start how every it cranks over and wont spark i tried everything but what ever the problem is. i dont want to keep cranking it and flatten and ruin the new flat tappet cam. here are the specs below:

Hughes 440 whiplash Cam
440 source Billet distributor
MSD Blaster 2 Coil
MSD 6A ignition box

I tested the Coil on the box says primary should be .7 ohms and secondary 5.5k ohms -- My test revealed .7 ohms and 5.4k ohms so its good.

my first ignition box i thought was bad sent it back and got the new one today and go figure still no spark. i tried getting spark from the coil and the spark plug wire and nothing. i checked my ground from my block to fire wall took all paint off and didnt help.

with my first box i even tried to get another coil same thing no spark and i tried the dizzy connection jumping to test for spark and the box beeped and the light flashed every time i connected the jumper but produced no spark at the ground, that's why i thought it was the box

I wired everything perfect i checked it like 20 times. and called 440 source to make sure i had the dizzy wired right. when i turn the key the MSD box light does come on, i have it wired like this:

Box:
Large red directly to positive battery terminal
large black directly to negative battery terminal,
Small red wire directly to my blue ignition wire( it has 12v key on and zero when key off)
Small orange wire to the positive side of coil
Small black wire to negative side of coil
violet dizzy wire to red wire on dizzy
green dizzy wire to the blue wire on dizzy
grey wire didn't use - no tach
white wire didn't use not using points dizzy

Battery:
positive it attached to my stock cable
negative i have grounded onto my Aluminum intake manifold Bolt

Electric Choke:
Positive to the positive side of the coil.

Coil came with a Ballast resistor but it has no positive or negative listed on it.can these be installed backwards? there is another electrical thing its like a long fuse about 4 inches long and size of a nickel round idk what it is but its right next to the ballast resistor,it that the ballast? can those go bad? I googled couldn't find a Ballast

I checked my two plugs at my fire wall its the wiring harness, they were corroded green, I let them soak in white vinager with tons of salt in it, then brushed them, then soaked and washed them around in clean water with tons of baking soda in it to clean them up and cancel the acidic vinigar , and i read you can lose voltage when cranking the key it will go from 12 volts down to 1 or something? I don't know why or how it would do that, im testing that tomorrow if my plugs dont work. if it does drop down to 1 volt while cranking how do you even fix that? if this doesn't work i'm totally stumped, lost, frustrated and its getting VERY disappointing, I'm out of money, not working, and moving across country soon to Indiana and need it to be running this is getting very stressful.

I also learned I have a oil leak from the oil pump gasket, ill fix that when i do the oil change after break in. ( i used orange RTV on the gasket can this be why? it was a thin layer )

and a antifreeze leak cause i forgot to put the top little 1/8" plug in the 440 source water pump housing and it spilled all over and i bought a brass one to put there but it still leaks ( can leak preventive additive from autozone or what ever you put in your radiator fix that style leak? ) I couldn't use lock tight or teflon tape cause it was wet with antifreeze plus i could barley even get to it to put it in in the first place cause its located directly under the already installed A/C that's bolted on using intake manifold bolts that are already torqued.... I couldnt even put my hand in here a ratchet wont fit had to use an end wrench .. would like a quick fix for the coolant leak if possible.

Sorry for the wall of text....

Bret

64Imperial

Update, cleaned the connectors and dried them, stupid POS still wont start. Tested my cranking volts on my ignition wire that connects to my little red wire for MSD box before cranking key on reads 11.34v ( cause battery isn't full been cranking it ) While cranking it loses 2 volts goes down to 9.3v in my mind this should still be enough to trigger some kind of spark..... I have one little pink wire thats not plugged in i dont know where it plugs in key off has no power, key on it jumps 0 and up to 16v some how shows ? error light lights up on the tester, im 99% sure it goes to the A/C but cant hook it up it broke off behind the pully.

Cams prob ruined with my luck from cranking it over so much prob has total 10 minutes crank time on it.

i'm out of things to try maybe someone knows some secret?

64Imperial

Update called MSD, I removed the Ballast resistor and jumped the two wires that connect it together they said they are like a voltage reducer for a points system turned it over no fire cant test spark yet i don't have two people.

RacerHog

Let me get some time to decipher all this....

RacerHog

Check the blue wire for 12Volt while cranking?
I'll bet the blue wire is dead when the ignition is in crank mode?????
The rest of it looks ok to me....
Keep us posted...

64Imperial

I tested the battery read 11.34 ( down from 12.57 cause i been cranking it) the wire read 11.3 while cranking it dropped 2v down to 9.3 wouldn't 9.3 be enough to get some kind of spark? and everything is new and even on my 2nd msd box. if the ignition is bad what do i change? just the part where you put the key in ? roller or what ever its called?

I do recall the car wouldnt start the month before i pulled the engine maybe thats the reason it wouldnt start the ignition was bad? i was figuring the carb was just junk and took a crap on me.

is there any way to test this stuff with one person? my bro wont help me and moms in bad health, and i have no friends lmfao

RacerHog

I don't have the info in front of me... But look... I think 10.0 Volts and lower will shut the box off? Sort of speaking...

RacerHog

Hook up your battery charger charge it for an hour and then put it on Boost... See if that helps. Sounds to me like your fighting a voltage Gremlin....

64Imperial

oh i didnt know that ill go put my battery on the trickle and google that. if it is my ignition wire. can i just replace that wire? or i need to replace the whole tumbler or what ever the ignition key things called?

64Imperial

so charge it first, then put the charger on boost and crank it while the charger is on the battery? 6 amp is boost?

Iowan

Hell, does the distributor have a rotor in it?
Have you gone over the whirring for the MSD with precise detail and connected to the proper wires in the harness?

Your going to find the problem and smack yourself in the head because you have been looking at it along! Trust me I know.

Iowan

Yes change the battery on 12 volts.

64Imperial

i checked the wiring like 20 times even uninstalled all the wiring from box one and reinstalled the wiring for box #2, the only wire that goes into the harness is the little red wire that goes to the blue ignition wire in the harness has 0 volts key off and 12v key on ( idk why they made the ignition wire blue when its a hot wire)
I talked to MSD also they told me i dont need the ballast resistor that it reduces voltage so i unhooked it then jumped both ballast wires together.

PS my camera is finally charged ill take some pics and post here maybe there is something in my face im missing.

the distributor im using is from 440 source link below
http://store.440source.com/PRO-BILLE...info/117-1000/

and yeah i talked to MSD and summitracing tech its all wired correctly

64Imperial

update just tried it again battery was 12.1v my main ignition wire drops to 9.34 while cranking. i tested my battery it read 11.97v pre crank and while cranking my battery dropped to 10.03v is a battery directly supposed to lose that much voltage? my battery is made by ever start its 1000 cranking amps and 850 cold crank amps size could it be damaged losing crank power from siting outside my car for 4 -5 months? during that whole 6 months it only lost 25% battery charge i bought the battery thanks giving 2014 when i bought the car. im in utah it sat in my garage January / February till like 2 weeks ago.

RacerHog

Ok.... Unhook the red wire you have going to the blue wire... Hook the MSD side (Red Wire) straight to the battery+ and try to start the car?
See if that works?

64Imperial

just tried this also no spark and no start, And i just took pictures going to upload them on here. my understanding was if it did start with that running directly to the battery to turn the car off i would need to unhook the little red MSD box wire from the battery to kill it.

RacerHog

Yes...

RacerHog

Unplug the Dist... Wiring... You need to do the jumper test....
Unplug the coil wire and put about a 1/2" from ground...
Hook the little red wire back to the battery +...
Use the Jumper wire to momentarily Jump and unjump the two Dist Leads.
????? Can you hear or see the arc from the coil wire???????
If not you have a issue in the system before dist. (Box or Coil or Wiring)


Will get there.... Stick with it....

64Imperial

I tried this with the old box was getting no spark, but the box would beep and light would flash when i jumped the Boxes Dizzy Wires together. Thats why i thought the old box was bad and sent it back, I bought a coil from autozone to try and still had no spark so i concluded it was the box,

Ill give the new box a try also ill post again Ill post pics of my wiring in next message.

I appreciate all the help guys.

RacerHog

Don't forget.... YOUR ONLY SUPPOSE TO TOUCH IT.... don't leave them connected together... Just Momentary And look and lesson......

64Imperial

Attached pics of all my connections, that red wire on my battery is a negative it came with the car as red idk why people do that lmfao i dont have the money to change it i have like $2 to my name with no job. the cars stock positive was black, idk if that's original i assume it is. so that gets them questions out of the way in advanced

I described what your looking at in the photos title located bottom left of the photos when you click on them. on the ballast resisters pick there is a white tube thing on the fire wall like 4 inches long what is that some kind of fuse? btw i checked the fuses under my dash all were good

64Imperial

yeah i was tapping them together kinda like the movies when they jump start cars lol

64Imperial

Update i tried the jumper test again, i flicked it for like 3 minutes with no spark but the box beeped and light flashed with no spark like before which is why i sent the first box back, well after 3-4 minutes of rubbing the connection together it started to have a healthy spark, im going to go through all my spark plugs and wires with a Q-tip i'm thinking i put too much dialectic grease in on them i think it started to spark cause it took a bunch of spark attempts to work its electricity through to the grease i put on there. I just squirted it on there i thought dialectic grease would be a conductor starting to think i was wrong ill repost my results.

RacerHog

And no spark jump from the coil wire to ground?

64Imperial

i had no spark at first but after like 3-4 minutes of jumping them together i started getting spark and gradually got stronger, I think it took that much time to eat through the dialetic grease i put in there i think i put way too much i just squirted it in there on the coil, dizzy and all spark plug wires i'm going to go throught them all with a Q tip to rub most of the grease out . i didnt know how much to put in there to i just squirted a blob of it.

the first 3-4 min of jumping it i think the spark was being blocked by the grease and after like 100 spark tries if finally broke through the grease. thinking the problem was the idiot that put so much grease in there aka me lol i squeezed maybe a half dime size blob in every connector

64Imperial

Update, wiped the dialectic grease off all the wires and plugs, I have spark from the coil by attaching the little red MSD Box wire straight to the battery + and unplugging the wire from the Distributor put a spark plug in the plug ( where the distributor would plug normally ) i put the plug threads on the ground and jumped the two MSD box distributor plug wires together repeated and it lit up the spark plug giving like 5-6 sparks each "flick" of the jumper. i hooked everything back up i used a spark plug wire tester plugged it on one spark plug then plugged the wire on to it i have no spark going to my plugs from my wires or distributor. Im starting to think the distributor is no good? It was the Billet 440 source distributor anyone heard of these being bad from the box?

everything before the distributor is good

another update i tried moving the distributor slowly back and forth about 1 inch spin while someone cranked it still nothing. no spark on the spark tester

another edit took my dist cap off to check for my plugs making sure they are all good put it on #1 TDC, it seems this dizzy kinda sucks has no room for adjustment i cant even change what direction the rotor points to even if i take the screw out in the middle, I thought i set it to fire 12 degrees before TDC somehow this changed on its own and its back to 0 degrees on TDC? so im trying to set it back to 12 degrees BTDC again like the cam manufacturer recremends.

any ideas how the hell the dist changed from 12 BTDC back to 0 again? it wasnt lose.

RacerHog

Get the testing procedures to test the distributor.. Lets get that part handled first.
Then we can move on to other issues....

64Imperial

Update I changed the ignition wire all the way up to the firewall & found TDC all over again unplugged everything from the dizzy and rotated the engine 12 degrees BTDC then hooked up all my spark plugs and i got spark to the spark plugs, then found out i have no fuel its bone dry i put 6 gallons in the gas tank so there is fuel I did have the fuel tank off and cleaned it all out with new sending unit and everything and I did hook up the fuel line to the tank also sprayed out the whole fuel line system with a high pressure sprayer for a garden hose and then i used my air compressor to spray in the lines to dry it all so it wouldn't rust, my lines are bone dry before and after the fuel pump, while trying to figure out the fuel problem, now i have no spark again to the plugs, and i checked the coil and it has a very weak spark now. can a coil lose power and die from trying to get a car started? the ohms primary and secondary have went down a little bit its now .5 ohms primary and 5.3 ohms secondary, box says it should be .7 and 5.5

the spark I did have might of been weak cause i sprayed a ton of gas in the carb with a spray bottle and it never even chugged to try and start at all
my plugs are gapped .45 .10 higher cause the MSD box

I have stainless steel wrapped plug wires that require being ground, i ground them with the grounding kit that came with the wires its grounded to one of my valve cover bolts.

64Imperial

update I have spark again to the plugs, I had my electric choke hot wire attached to my coil + side and it was stealing too much power, I have spark yet when i crank and put gas in the carb it doesn't act like it wants to start at all just turns over? flooded maybe? its a 750 CFM street demon carb

Where do i attach my electric chokes hot wire since the + side of coil wont work? cause i cant attach it to the battery or alternator cause they always have power going to them..

64Imperial

Update: I would like to thank everyone for their help getting this beast going, it just fired up for the first time sounds amazing! i had to shut if off sadly so i can do the break in about to do that now!