Oil problems with all OHV engines
02-19-2009, 09:19 AM
#1
Mopar Lover
Thread Starter
Oil problems with all OHV engines
I know i posted this already, i am just gonna re-post it for the new members so they know
The Zinc has been removed from the oil, and because of this, it is causing cam failure in most OHV engines. To fix this, you need to buy a zinc additive or an oil with zinc in it to stop the problem, but it may be too late. If it comes to that, pulling the engine is the best bet. You need to make sure the metal which came off the cam and lifters didnt scratch the berings or destroy the oil pump.
OHC engines aren't affected. It affects all OHV engines (hydraulic and solid lifters), except for roller cams. The zinc coats the lifters and the cam, making the contact smoother, and allowing the lifters to spin without wiping out the cam.
here is an example of what will happen; it took my cam with it
keep in mind this is a brand new lifter with around 600-700 miles on it
BUT, if you have an old engine thar has been running for a long time, you wont need zinc additives
most oils (make sure yours has it) has enough zinc in it for the engine
but, if you are running a newly built engine (new cam, lifters, etc), you need the zinc in your oil
here is more proof: https://moparforums.com/forums/f10/z...gine-oil-3832/
The Zinc has been removed from the oil, and because of this, it is causing cam failure in most OHV engines. To fix this, you need to buy a zinc additive or an oil with zinc in it to stop the problem, but it may be too late. If it comes to that, pulling the engine is the best bet. You need to make sure the metal which came off the cam and lifters didnt scratch the berings or destroy the oil pump.
OHC engines aren't affected. It affects all OHV engines (hydraulic and solid lifters), except for roller cams. The zinc coats the lifters and the cam, making the contact smoother, and allowing the lifters to spin without wiping out the cam.
here is an example of what will happen; it took my cam with it
keep in mind this is a brand new lifter with around 600-700 miles on it
BUT, if you have an old engine thar has been running for a long time, you wont need zinc additives
most oils (make sure yours has it) has enough zinc in it for the engine
but, if you are running a newly built engine (new cam, lifters, etc), you need the zinc in your oil
here is more proof: https://moparforums.com/forums/f10/z...gine-oil-3832/
Last edited by 67 GTX; 08-18-2009 at 06:15 PM.
02-19-2009, 12:40 PM
#2
Admin
Same thing happened to my AMC 360 with only about 100 miles on a rebuilt motor. That was a waste of $175 on tht cam and lifters, not to mention my time tearing the motor apart again to fix it.
02-24-2009, 10:40 PM
#9
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Ok I talked to a guy that had muscle motors out of detroit i think build him a 550 horse 440. edy heads and a hyd. cam. They told him that they use stp engine oil treatment when they build a motor and you can get it at most parts outlets, napa so-on. like 4 bucks a bottle. i also talked to a hot rodd builder n the area, he uses E O S enine oil suppliment. you get it at the local G.M. dealer parts counter, its 22 a bottle. Theese have the zinc addative needed to keep your flat tappet cam alive.
02-25-2009, 10:53 PM
#12
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If it was a purple shaft cam gtx, its possible it was just lifter faliure. I put a 509 in a buddys 440 2 winters ago. right out of the box it failed. i put the old cam back in ran great. lifters were bad.
02-26-2009, 06:07 AM
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My engine builder warned me about this as well. He said when i break in my engine to use Comp Cams break in additive. He also said that there was a engine oil availbe from Joe Gibbs that had a higher zinc content if this helps any.
02-26-2009, 09:44 AM
#15
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From what i have read on this subject, stp additive has lost a lot of the once high concentration Zink additives.
If you have a flat tappet cam, i would recommend using the cam additive that most cam company's offer now, or the GM EOS(even tho the bottle now states that it for cam brake in only) in Every Oil Change.........and you will be find with to days New and Improved (YA RIGHT
) OilsThe problem with some of these "racing oil" is that they don't have the cleaning detergents necessary for the Daily drivers..............
Just my .02
02-26-2009, 05:50 PM
#19
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Proper cam breakin is key. Any engine i build Mopar, Shitty Chevy, or Furds, With the intake off. I mark the lifter and turn the engine 6-8 times and if a lifter didn't turn i take it back out, check the lifter bore and lifter, clean lifter and bore, relube and install and turn engine through again. You should never pump up the lifters. I have an article AERA, and Fedral Mogul that you should never pump up the lifters because just because the oil is new doesnt mean that it is clean and can cause premature lifter failure. Another thing I put a Mopar Purple Shaft cam in 360 in an 86 1 ton truck. I went through 4 cams bought from Dodge dealership and they where .005-.010 bent. I finally got a cam that was .002 bent and ran it. Another thing is DONT run Melling lifters. The lifter face is so rough from the factory they will cause a cam to go flat in a hurry
02-26-2009, 06:22 PM
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I don't know how long it would take to oil them all up on their own, as the engine is not always perfectly level as is the flow of oil, I believe one of the lifters may get stuck and cause some major issues.
02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
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comando, yes i oiled his lifters bfoe install. I crank the motor over by hand several times to compress them as well. and prime the pump and lube the engins befoe and after I rotate it.
02-27-2009, 02:24 PM
#25
Mopar Lover
Thread Starter
REV: 2/2008 5481 E
For more information, see www.cranecams.com
CRANE CAMS INC. 530 Fentress Blvd, Daytona Beach, FL 32114
www.cranecams.com Tech Line: (386) 258-6174 Fax: (386) 258-6167
www.cranecams.com Tech Line: (386) 258-6174 Fax: (386) 258-6167
READ CAREFULLY AND COMPLETELY BEFORE INSTALLATION
WARNING: NEW LIFTERS MUST BE INSTALLED WITH YOUR NEW CAMSHAFT
Prior to installation:
��
Check the compatibility of the camshaft with the remainder of the valve train components (valve
springs, rockers, etc.)
springs, rockers, etc.)
��
On race type, high load spring applications, use lighter load springs or remove the inner spring (dual
spring application) just for break-in.
spring application) just for break-in.
CRANE FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT RECOMMENDED BREAK-IN PROCEDURE
Due to the EPA
��s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in
procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet
Camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes
of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes.
There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not
limited to: (Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs racing) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams
Part # 99003-1 Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.
procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet
Camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes
of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes.
There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include, but are not
limited to: (Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs racing) or a “race only” petroleum- based oil and include Crane Cams
Part # 99003-1 Super Lube” additive. Do not use API rated “SL” or “SM” oil.
CAUTION:
We do not recommend the use of synthetic oils for “break-in”. Prior to installing the camshaft and
lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil
filter should also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation
and includes the following steps:
1. Before installing the camshaft and lifters, wash them thoroughly in clean mineral spirits to remove the rust
preventative that is placed on the cam before shipping. NOTE: As a “rule of thumb”, always thoroughly clean
any part before installing it in an engine. Never “assume” that the parts are cleaned before packaging. During
shipping, packaging material can rub into the component surface and must be removed!
2. DO NOT “pump-up” hydraulic lifters before use. This can cause the lifters to hold a valve open during engine
cranking, which will cause low compression. The low compression will delay engine start-up and is very
detrimental to proper camshaft “break-in”.
lifters, it is recommended that the crankcase be drained and filled with new, clean oil, as listed above. The oil
filter should also be changed at this time. Proper flat tappet camshaft break-in starts with the cam installation
and includes the following steps:
1. Before installing the camshaft and lifters, wash them thoroughly in clean mineral spirits to remove the rust
preventative that is placed on the cam before shipping. NOTE: As a “rule of thumb”, always thoroughly clean
any part before installing it in an engine. Never “assume” that the parts are cleaned before packaging. During
shipping, packaging material can rub into the component surface and must be removed!
2. DO NOT “pump-up” hydraulic lifters before use. This can cause the lifters to hold a valve open during engine
cranking, which will cause low compression. The low compression will delay engine start-up and is very
detrimental to proper camshaft “break-in”.
3. With the supplied moly paste lube, coat the bottom of the lifters, cam lobes and distributor gear. Use Crane
Cams assembly lube Part # 99008-1 on all other surfaces and components.
Cams assembly lube Part # 99008-1 on all other surfaces and components.
4. Set your valve lash or lifter preload. Try to minimize the number of times that you rotate the engine, as this
can displace the moly paste from the lobes and lifters.
5. If possible prime the oiling system. When priming, rotate the engine at least one complete revolution to
assure oil gets to all valve train components.
can displace the moly paste from the lobes and lifters.
5. If possible prime the oiling system. When priming, rotate the engine at least one complete revolution to
assure oil gets to all valve train components.
Valve covers should be off to assure that all rockers are
oiling.
oiling.
Installation Instructions – 548E
Flat Tappet Camshaft Break-in Procedure
REV: 2/2008 5482 E
6. Preset the ignition timing to start the engine at a fast idle.
It is important that the static ignition timing is
as close as possible and if the engine has a carburetor, it should be filled with fuel. The engine needs
to start quickly without excessive cranking to insure immediate lubrication to the cam lobes.
as close as possible and if the engine has a carburetor, it should be filled with fuel. The engine needs
to start quickly without excessive cranking to insure immediate lubrication to the cam lobes.
7. Start the engine and immediately bring to 3,000 rpm. Timing should be adjusted, as closely as possible, to
reduce excessive heat or load during break-in. Get the engine running fairly smoothly and vary the engine
speed from 1500-3000 RPM in a slow, to moderate, acceleration/deceleration cycle. During this time, be sure
to check for any leaks and check out any unusual noises. If something doesn
reduce excessive heat or load during break-in. Get the engine running fairly smoothly and vary the engine
speed from 1500-3000 RPM in a slow, to moderate, acceleration/deceleration cycle. During this time, be sure
to check for any leaks and check out any unusual noises. If something doesn
��t sound right, shut the engine off
and check out the source of the noise. Upon restart, resume the high idle speed cycling. Continue the varying
“break-in” speed for 20 - 30 minutes. This is necessary to provide proper lifter rotation to properly mate each
lifter to its lobe. Should the engine need to be shut down for any reason, upon re-start it should be immediately
brought back to 3000 rpm and the break-in continued for a total run time of 20 - 30 minutes.
and check out the source of the noise. Upon restart, resume the high idle speed cycling. Continue the varying
“break-in” speed for 20 - 30 minutes. This is necessary to provide proper lifter rotation to properly mate each
lifter to its lobe. Should the engine need to be shut down for any reason, upon re-start it should be immediately
brought back to 3000 rpm and the break-in continued for a total run time of 20 - 30 minutes.
8. Let the engine cool, and then drain the crankcase and properly dispose of the oil and oil filter. Refill
the crankcase with a premium petroleum-based oil, not a synthetic oil. At this point the initial “breakin”
is complete. You can drive the vehicle in your normal manner. We recommend changing the oil
and filter after 500 miles. You might want to put another 5000 miles on the cam before switching to a
synthetic, if that is your preference.
the crankcase with a premium petroleum-based oil, not a synthetic oil. At this point the initial “breakin”
is complete. You can drive the vehicle in your normal manner. We recommend changing the oil
and filter after 500 miles. You might want to put another 5000 miles on the cam before switching to a
synthetic, if that is your preference.
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Spring Pressures:
For extended camshaft life, flat-tappet cams should not be run with more than the
recommended open valve spring pressure. Racing applications will often need to run more spring pressure at
the expense of reduced camshaft life. In order to “break-in” a camshaft with high open pressures, the inner
springs should be removed to reduce “break-in” load. The inner springs can then be reinstalled after initial
“break-in” is complete.
recommended open valve spring pressure. Racing applications will often need to run more spring pressure at
the expense of reduced camshaft life. In order to “break-in” a camshaft with high open pressures, the inner
springs should be removed to reduce “break-in” load. The inner springs can then be reinstalled after initial
“break-in” is complete.
Lifter Rotation:
Flat tappet cams (both hydraulic and mechanical) have the lobes ground on a slight taper and
the lifter appears to sit offset from the lobe centerline. This will induce a rotation of the lifter on the lobe. This
rotation draws oil to the mating surface between the lifter and the lobe. If it is possible to view the pushrods
during “break-in”, they should be spinning as an indication that the lifter is spinning. If you don��t see a pushrod
spinning, immediately stop the engine and find the cause.
the lifter appears to sit offset from the lobe centerline. This will induce a rotation of the lifter on the lobe. This
rotation draws oil to the mating surface between the lifter and the lobe. If it is possible to view the pushrods
during “break-in”, they should be spinning as an indication that the lifter is spinning. If you don��t see a pushrod
spinning, immediately stop the engine and find the cause.
Never use old flat tappet lifters on a new cam.
On flat tappet cams, the lobes and lifter bottoms mate
together and if the lifters are removed from the engine, they must go back on the same lobe from which they
were removed. Crane Cams recommends the use of high quality tappets to prevent premature cam or
lifter wear. Crane tappets are of the highest quality.
together and if the lifters are removed from the engine, they must go back on the same lobe from which they
were removed. Crane Cams recommends the use of high quality tappets to prevent premature cam or
lifter wear. Crane tappets are of the highest quality.
Big Block Chevrolets have an oil-priming idiosyncrasy. When priming a Big Block Chevy with a drill motor and
priming tool, it is often necessary to prime for as much as 20 minutes (while rotating the engine) to get oil to all
of the lifters and rockers. It is advisable to prime these engines with the valve covers removed so you can
check to see oil coming out of all of the rocker arms before firing the engine. This last step is advisable on all
engines, but particularly on Big Block Chevrolets.
priming tool, it is often necessary to prime for as much as 20 minutes (while rotating the engine) to get oil to all
of the lifters and rockers. It is advisable to prime these engines with the valve covers removed so you can
check to see oil coming out of all of the rocker arms before firing the engine. This last step is advisable on all
engines, but particularly on Big Block Chevrolets.
~ haha
03-10-2009, 10:52 AM
#30
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i was helping an older guy i know change a cam in his 360. what he does is leave the intake off and leave the oil plug out. he keeps dumping oil on the cam and in the rockers and turns the crank by hand without the timing chain on it. he says hes been doing this for many years and has never had a problem. (he changed the cam for more torque)
